Just read this article, does it mean that they will collect the 4euro per sqm of building every time you pay your electric bill, or that it will be calculated into your electric bill over a yearly period.
Confused, I am!
Message posted by Elliemay on 11 September 2011 at 6:14pm - IP Logged
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So if it's all buildings that means hotels etc are going to be paying much, much more that means costs passed on to tourists = less tourists = less revenue for restaurants, bars etc who have had taxes increased by 4euro sqm = more decline = bye bye Corfu. CRAZY!!!
Message posted by trisa on 11 September 2011 at 7:09pm - IP Logged
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They may know the legal dimensions of buildings but not any illegal extensions as they have all the information on buildings before they will give the full electricity.
Trisa
Message posted by corfuwolves on 11 September 2011 at 7:46pm - IP Logged
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Having read the link to Athens News, can anybody clarify whether the calculation is based on the whole house or just the footprint square meterage? Also, is this a 'one off' payment to be calculated over two years or an annual payment?
Message posted by trisa on 11 September 2011 at 7:59pm - IP Logged
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At the moment there's just not enough information to know the answer corfuwolves. I think we're just going to have to wait and see, or wait until the next electricity bill arrives!
Reading the article my impression is that payments for this year will have to be made with the bills up until February. Payments for the year from February will also be in instalments but I'm just guessing and I'm probably guessing wrong!
Trisa
Message posted by corfuwolves on 11 September 2011 at 8:06pm - IP Logged
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Just refuse to pay it and threaten Brussels involvement, we did the last time they asked for the house tax two years ago. We [as expats] are bolstering their economy and they have no right to inflict these [pluck out of the air taxes}...stand your ground and tell them to take a hike ...we do.
J&H
Message posted by nick22 on 11 September 2011 at 8:49pm - IP Logged
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The problem is that UK people owning property in Greece have to make sure that they transfer enough euros by 1st jan & obtain pink slips to ensure that they dont pay tax on this money etc...
Message posted by Graham T-A on 12 September 2011 at 1:31am - IP Logged
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Nick, this is a seperate tax. If you own a property in the UK you pay rates and this is what this is. If you have an income you need to pay tax on it as income tax same as UK.
Message posted by trisa on 12 September 2011 at 9:12am - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by JohnandHilary on 11 September 2011
Just refuse to pay it and threaten Brussels involvement, we did the last time they asked for the house tax two years ago. We [as expats] are bolstering their economy and they have no right to inflict these [pluck out of the air taxes}...stand your ground and tell them to take a hike ...we do.
J&H
If we live here permanently we have to take the rough with the smooth. This tax will apparently apply to every building in Greece and will be paid with the electricity bill. The government has every right to inflict these taxes.
Why should you not pay just because you are an ex-pat? It brings you down to the level of all those who don't pay their taxes here which is a major reason why the country is currently in the state it is in in the fist place.
Trisa
Message posted by Sid Ari on 12 September 2011 at 9:14am - IP Logged
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Asked a Greek friend of mine about this and he said if you have 100sqm of accomodation, you will pay an annual tax of 400 euros paid by 2 monthly installments on your electric bill so your bill will go up by 400 euros divided by six bills a year = 67 euros on each bill. That's how he reads it but he said knowing this government he could be wrong.
Message posted by janmanessi on 12 September 2011 at 9:59am - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by Sid Ari on 12 September 2011
Asked a Greek friend of mine about this and he said if you have 100sqm of accomodation, you will pay an annual tax of 400 euros paid by 2 monthly installments on your electric bill so your bill will go up by 400 euros divided by six bills a year = 67 euros on each bill. That's how he reads it but he said knowing this government he could be wrong.
Except it looks like we may have to pay this year's tax in 5 months!!!
Trisa
Message posted by Sid Ari on 12 September 2011 at 10:08am - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by janmanessi on 12 September 2011
absolutely right Trisa- why should any one category of people think they have a right to immunity from taxation?
Many Greeks work and contribute to the UK economy and pay taxes there if they stay there. Same in reverse!
It seems that a large amount of the Greek population believe they are immune from taxation ... that is why Greece is such a mess.
Message posted by jbtapscott on 12 September 2011 at 10:08am - IP Logged
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"..The new charge, the latest in a series of tax increases, will range from 50 cents to 10 euros per square meter according to the value of the property and will apply for two years, Venizelos said, noting that the tax would be added to electricity bills to thwart would-be tax evaders. There will be concessions for the disabled, the unemployed and large families...".
Message posted by thecorfiot on 12 September 2011 at 12:33pm - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by JohnandHilary on 11 September 2011
Just refuse to pay it and threaten Brussels involvement, we did the last time they asked for the house tax two years ago. We [as expats] are bolstering their economy and they have no right to inflict these [pluck out of the air taxes}...stand your ground and tell them to take a hike ...we do.
J&H
John & Hilary,
I don't understand why you think that any group of people should be exempt. I assume that you, like myself, are guests in this country.
This proposal is for a legally imposed tax by a legally and democratically elected government. If our Greek hosts object, the solution is in their hands, not ours. Of course that doesn't stop us from complaining about it.
Refusing to pay a legally imposed tax is frankly laughable. If you wish to criminalise yourself, that is your prerogative. The solution is ultimately in your own hands.
As for what expatriates contribute to the economy, I can assure you that there are plenty that contribute nothing.
Personally, I don't like it but will pay it if required to do so.
Like most British, I detest people who visit Britain and then try to avoid their commitments. I don't expect my Greek hosts to feel any different.
Finally, is my memory failing me or do I recall that a recent law gives the police power to arrest anyone that owes more than €5000 in outstanding tax?
Have a nice day!
Bob G.
Message posted by nick22 on 12 September 2011 at 12:42pm - IP Logged
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I don't think that I have explained myself enough.
What I was getting at was that people from the UK who earn money in the UK have to transfer over via international bank transfer to Greek bank account a minimum amount of euros before end of December each year so that the dont have to pay tax on this money in Greece that has been sent over.
Our's is a minimum of 3000 euros each year based on 45 Sqmtrs.
What I was getting at was, that if this property tax system is now in place then people owning property in Corfu (who live in UK) will have to ensure that they transfer enough funds before December to cover this amount, otherwise they may be subject to paying income tax in Greece.
Hope everyone now understands my drift!!!
Message posted by janmanessi on 12 September 2011 at 1:46pm - IP Logged
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Maybe I am being thick (highly likely!) but as this tax is apparently going to be charged on electricity bills surely it just means ensuring that there are sufficient funds in Greece to pay your electricity bill plus the tax- whether or not the money is safely in Greece before December will not affect your tax position- or am I wrong?
Message posted by janmanessi on 12 September 2011 at 1:51pm - IP Logged
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Sid Ari It seems that a large amount of the Greek population believe they are immune from taxation ... that is why Greece is such a mess.
Agree, but there are also a lot of extremely poor people in Greece who quite rightly should not have to pay tax. Whole families live on incomes that many single people would struggle to survive on.
Anyway, two wrongs (Greeks who should pay tax but don't) and expatriates who winge (a number of whom will probably have come to live abroad to avoid paying into the tax system at home) do not make a right!
Bob G- don't know if it was intentional but I loved your spellng of ex patriot...a very good way of describing some of those who leave their own country for a better life elsewhere!
Message posted by nick22 on 12 September 2011 at 2:34pm - IP Logged
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You could be right, but will have to ensure that I transfer a little more before December just in-case they increase the minimum amount that I need to send over (this year was 3000 euros on 45sq mtr), not sure if they will add the property tax to this amount. We will see!!!
Message posted by 2Tonsils on 12 September 2011 at 2:44pm - IP Logged
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Just to point out another aspect to this...People who rent property here from landlords will probably have this tax to pay as well. Most landlords here pass on the whole electric bill (including rates/taxes) to each tenant in a property to pay their share for their area of the property. Worth finding out what you will have to pay if you are on a limited budget such as a pension, which many are.
Message posted by nick22 on 12 September 2011 at 2:53pm - IP Logged
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Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos heralded fresh austerity measures over the weekend, chiefly a new property tax, a day after Prime Minister George Papandreou insisted that his government would do everything necessary to plug a gaping budget deficit and secure the next installment of emergency funding on which the country’s solvency depends.
The development came a few days before a scheduled visit by inspectors from the European Union and International Monetary Fund. The auditors are to decide whether the government has made enough progress in plugging a budget shortfall to qualify for a sorely needed 8-billion-euro loan tranche.
European Economic and Monetary Affairs Commissioner Olli Rehn hailed the government’s initiative and said he expected the inspectors to complete their audit by the end of September. “I welcome the expressed commitment by the Greek government to fully meet the agreed fiscal targets this year and next,” Rehn said on Sunday.
Noting that the next two months would be “hellish,” Venizelos told a press conference earlier Sunday that the government had no option but to do “everything necessary” to cover a budget shortfall, estimated at 2 billion euros, following a deeper-than-expected recession.
The new charge, the latest in a series of tax increases, will range from 50 cents to 10 euros per square meter according to the value of the property and will apply for two years, Venizelos said, noting that the tax would be added to electricity bills to thwart would-be tax evaders. There will be concessions for the disabled, the unemployed and large families.
The minister also heralded cutbacks in public spending but Papandreou doused speculation about mass redundancies among civil servants.
In another, largely symbolic move, a month’s salary is to be cut from all elected officials, ranging from the president to the country’s mayors.
Papandreou conceded that the additional measures were tough but likened them to crucial supplies during war. “These measures are the supplies we need to fight,” he said.
On Saturday night, addressing an audience of entrepreneurs and politicians at his annual economic policy speech, Papandreou said his key goal was to meet Greece’s commitments to its creditors and keep the country solvent. “Every delay, every option other than strict compliance with our commitments is dangerous,” he said, adding, “We will remain in the eurozone.”
In an apparent dig at EU leaders’ procrastination in honoring the terms of a second bailout to Greece, Papandreou said the country “would not become the scapegoat for institutional problems and populism in Europe.”
The PM sought to temper his grim message with some hope. A privatization drive and plans to simplify licensing for investment in the tourism and renewable energy sectors would create growth and jobs, he said.
He also heralded the issuing of licenses for undersea oil and gas exploration in the Ionian and off the island of Crete.
Papandreou concluded by appealing to Greeks’ sense of nationalism and responsibility, appealing to business owners to pay taxes and to young Greeks not to leave. “Greece can become a different county. But this cannot happen without you,” he said.
ekathimerini.com , Sunday September 11, 2011 (23:25)
Message posted by Sid Ari on 12 September 2011 at 3:36pm - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by janmanessi on 12 September 2011
Bob G- don't know if it was intentional but I loved your spellng of ex patriot...a very good way of describing some of those who leave their own country for a better life elsewhere!
Jan,
You are quite right. I have already been beaten about the head by 'she who must be obeyed'! Thank you so much for highlighting my stupidity!
Bob G.
Message posted by trisa on 12 September 2011 at 5:02pm - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by Geoff on 12 September 2011
Might not happen anyway - take a look at this :-
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/12/greece-tax-labour-idUSL5E7KC0MY20110912
Are there any unions who want to help get this country back on its feet? In fact has anyone got the will to help get this country back on its feet? I do doubt it sometimes. There are some youngsters who can see the light but far too many people are totally apathetic.
Trisa
Message posted by janmanessi on 12 September 2011 at 6:28pm - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by Susanna on 12 September 2011
I think you could have got away with that one, Bob G, if you had reacted quickly. Nice that you were honest, though!
Susanna,
Sadly my honesty not to mention 'telling it how it is' has often been my downfall! By the number of post removed lately, I guess others suffer in a similar fashion!
Quote: Originally posted by Homesick on 12 September 2011
Just a little point, how does the electric people know if you are unemployed or not?
This is only a guess, but as with most things I reckon that you would have to make an application for any exemption.
The same thought crossed my mind as although I receive a government pension, I am not of an age where I could obtain a state pension, neither do I have a job. (I'm not after one either!) I do wonder sometimes whether it might be worth 'trying it on' though!
Bob G.
Message posted by jrk on 13 September 2011 at 5:11pm - IP Logged
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Pools are covered by a separate tax, I believe the tax bills for them have been sent out recently...along with luxury tax bills for cars over 1950 cc, boats , and private planes and helicopters...the tax for all buildings is in addition to these and a new tax.
Message posted by trisa on 15 September 2011 at 7:11pm - IP Logged
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Given the current state of affairs, I would have thought many Greeks will have problems paying a tax of EUR16 sq mt. Threats to cut off electricity (as the article states) will hardly endear the authorities to people who are already seeing their salaries cut. Once again it looks like the "man in the street" will be taking the biggest hit in proportion to his income.
Message posted by jrk on 15 September 2011 at 8:52pm - IP Logged
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It was reported in several UK papers that according to Greek government figures, 25,000 people have salaries of euros 100,000 and above. If these reports are accurate, does this strike you as low in a country with a population of 12 million or so?
Message posted by C4owner on 15 September 2011 at 9:35pm - IP Logged
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Yes at 2% of population it sounds low as a percentage
There are 300,000+ UK taxpayers on the 50% rate which starts at £150,000 of taxable earnings in a population of circa 60 million so 5%
However, Greece doesn't have the large banking, investment house and manufacturing company base, that the UK does, where a lot of those higher earners come from.
You can't take that figure of 25,000 in isolation to point fingers at tax avoidance, if that's where your heading.
Message posted by trisa on 21 September 2011 at 1:05pm - IP Logged
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I've just seen on Twitter that the government may extend the new property tax to 4 years as Troika not convinced that it will work. Also new austerity measures will be announced this afternoon.
Trisa
Message posted by MartynG on 21 September 2011 at 1:46pm - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by C4owner on 15 September 2011
Yes at 2% of population it sounds low as a percentage
There are 300,000+ UK taxpayers on the 50% rate which starts at £150,000 of taxable earnings in a population of circa 60 million so 5%
However, Greece doesn't have the large banking, investment house and manufacturing company base, that the UK does, where a lot of those higher earners come from.
You can't take that figure of 25,000 in isolation to point fingers at tax avoidance, if that's where your heading.
C4 - I think that you will find that 300,000 expressed as a percentage of 60m is actually 0.5% On this basis, 2% sound rather high!
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On this basis, 2% sound rather high!
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