Looks like the EU have had enough of the promises and are willing to let Greece default on it's loans and even leave the eurozone. Germany seems VERY adamant that they will prop up the Greeks no longer and are saying that the situation cannot go on. They are meeting with the other biggest lender, France, today. French and German banks have said they are prepared for the default and it will not hurt them as much as shelling out more cash. So what will this mean .. a return to the Drachma, which will have a minus value as it is only backed by debt. Property values halving or more and will prices in Greece go down again and higher taxes reduced?? Imported goods will rocket in price and with Greece relying on mostly imported goods, this very bad news all round.
Message posted by trisa on 14 September 2011 at 2:38pm - IP Logged
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You are most definitely a glass half empty person!
We have no idea what is going to happen. If and when it does happen, there will be nothing we can do about it except go back to where we came from. Is that an option for you because I still feel privileged to live here and wouldn't want to have to go down that road. I can't see that it would be any better and in many ways it could be a lot worse!
Good news or bad - that's life and we have to get on with it!
Trisa
Message posted by Sid Ari on 14 September 2011 at 2:55pm - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by trisa on 14 September 2011
You are most definitely a glass half empty person!
We have no idea what is going to happen. If and when it does happen, there will be nothing we can do about it except go back to where we came from. Is that an option for you because I still feel privileged to live here and wouldn't want to have to go down that road. I can't see that it would be any better and in many ways it could be a lot worse!
Good news or bad - that's life and we have to get on with it!
Trisa
I would say I am a realist with a strong economic interest in this, not a 'bury my head in the sand' type. Having invested 200,000 euros in a property here then I would say that this news is very important for any one with ties to Corfu and Greece. Yes, I do have the option of going back to the UK as I still have a house there too but that is not why I bought a house in Corfu. I was only quoting the ongoing reports by Sky news and economic experts and politicians including Greek ones. Maybe they are 'most definitely a glass half empty people too. I agree, we don't know for sure what will happen but talk of no more handouts has never been so strong. Let's hope the experts are wrong and you are right.
Message posted by razaker on 14 September 2011 at 2:59pm - IP Logged
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The Greek friends I spoke to on the subject whilst in Corfu in August wanted out of the €, whether it be for the good or bad of Greece, surely the mind set of Greeks would be better in the long run knowing they where back in control of there own future, I for one just wish them well what ever path they take..
Message posted by SusieM on 14 September 2011 at 3:09pm - IP Logged
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One of my daughters was telling me on the phone this morning that the rumours that are flying around Greece are that the Russians were in deep discussions with the previous PM of Greece Mr Karamalis. The Russians were going to bail them out signing a contract to put gas lines down under through the Balkans up to Thessalonika & this was all but agreed when the Americans & Mr Papandreou got involved. Meanwhile Mr Karamalis has disappeared with his family into thin air as his family has been threatened but Mr K is due back on the scene. Nothing would surprise me.
Letting Greece out of the Euro will probably in the long term be the best thing that could happen to Greece.
Message posted by Sid Ari on 14 September 2011 at 3:14pm - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by razaker on 14 September 2011
The Greek friends I spoke to on the subject whilst in Corfu in August wanted out of the €, whether it be for the good or bad of Greece, surely the mind set of Greeks would be better in the long run knowing they where back in control of there own future, I for one just wish them well what ever path they take..
Yes, all the Greeks I know say they want out of the euro as they remember the 'good old Drachma' and the good times that went with it. Thing is, Greece was going bust before it joined the euro and had to cook the books and lie about deficit being 3.5% instead of nearly 15% to get in but times have changed now. Greece has not been able to prosper even with the might of the euro behind it. Greece has very little GDP and relies on tourism for a vast amount of income and this is down all over the world. Look at how the pound is struggling against the euro at the moment and then ask yourself how a 'new Drachma' would fair.
Message posted by daveyh on 14 September 2011 at 3:15pm - IP Logged
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daveyh
Too much politics in play by Germany especially at the moment. Merkel worried about elections and her own position far more than Greece. She'll do anything to protect her position which may not suit Greece or Europe as a whole. Hard to get a true picture as Greeks cannot state if they really want out while still awaiting much needed bailout money. Time will tell; it seems UK can manage its debts better from outside the Euro and maybe that will be the best route forward for Greece.
Message posted by Lavinia on 14 September 2011 at 3:31pm - IP Logged
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Hi Susie, my old friend. very interesting post about the Russians and Karamanlis. Unfortunately he is not cut from the same cloth as Konstantinos Karamanlis though, is he?!
I thought Barack Obama had now involved the USA and is pressuring both Germany and France to support Greece, because of the international banking market slump? Surely the injection of 500m euros by Qatar last week must have had some positive effect on the Greek situation?
Having said that, I completely agree with Susie, nothing will surprise me! Very interesting (and somewhat scarey) days lie ahead.
Message posted by Sid Ari on 14 September 2011 at 3:40pm - IP Logged
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Just seen the latest discussion with economic experts on Sky news, which they have been carrying all day. It seems Merkel is pushing Greece for a decision on default as she has decided that no more money is on offer unless Greece hands over control of its finances to the EU as the austerity measures are not working. They are saying that Greece will be a 'scapegoat' and will be allowed to leave the eurozone as a warning to the bigger problem countries of Italy and Spain who would expect the same handouts if they reach the same crisis point.
Message posted by Lavinia on 14 September 2011 at 3:41pm - IP Logged
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p.s. Trisa, I am also a glass half-full person. I am a dual-national and have every intention of staying here in Corfu whatever happens because my quality of life is so much better here than it would be in the UK. This situation is very grave for me personally, as it is not just about my house falling in value, I also try to exist on an ever diminishing Greek widow's pension.
However, there is nothing at all that I can do about it, so I shall just make do and keep on smiling.
Message posted by GUV1 on 14 September 2011 at 3:45pm - IP Logged
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The value of your house is only relevant if you want to sell it (ok, there could be other issues including negative equity) but if you're not selling, so what if the value temporarily halves?
Message posted by Sid Ari on 14 September 2011 at 3:54pm - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by GUV1 on 14 September 2011
The value of your house is only relevant if you want to sell it (ok, there could be other issues including negative equity) but if you're not selling, so what if the value temporarily halves?
True but shelling out 200,000 euros to realise that your investment is now worth only 100,000 and taxes and costs on it are increasing every week is a bitter pill to swallow ... and how long is temporary ... I am not getting any younger?
Message posted by Lavinia on 14 September 2011 at 4:07pm - IP Logged
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Isn't Sky News part of "News Corporation" and affiliated to Fox News?
The BBC is reporting on a European Bond incentive with backing from George Soros.
As Susie said, rumours are in overdrive and it depends on which news you watch/read as to what opinion you will form on the crisis. Speculative journalism is rife at the moment and should be taken with a pinch of salt. Let's all wait and see what happens this evening.
Message posted by Bill on 14 September 2011 at 4:20pm - IP Logged
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But Sid, many British owners who shelled out 200,000 euros (or whatever) for property here did so when the exchange rate was much more favourable than it is today. Therefore, even if the investment value falls many will not lose anything like 50% of the actual cost, presuming they then repatriate their money in Britain. (OK, I accept this doesn't run true for other nationalities, but this site has a predominantly British membership).
Of course, those who have bought in the last year or two won't fair so well, but we've all been aware of recessions and economic crisis for a while now, so it would have been foolish to purchase property with the expectation of a good return on their investment in the near future.
For me it's helped me to make a decision about returning to the UK, I think I'll sit it out here for the moment - at least I have a roof over my head and no mortgage to pay!
Message posted by Sid Ari on 14 September 2011 at 4:32pm - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by Lavinia on 14 September 2011
Isn't Sky News part of "News Corporation" and affiliated to Fox News?
The BBC is reporting on a European Bond incentive with backing from George Soros.
As Susie said, rumours are in overdrive and it depends on which news you watch/read as to what opinion you will form on the crisis. Speculative journalism is rife at the moment and should be taken with a pinch of salt. Let's all wait and see what happens this evening.
Sky news is owned by Murdoch who also owns Fox news, yes.
However the BBC is controlled by the UK government (who approve the licence fee) so neither is independent. However the Sky news coverage has been very good and constant with a string of interviews with independent economic analysts including Greek experts. I agree they do not know 100% what will happen and can only predict. I think common sense tells you that the rest of Europe cannot keep on bailing out a member state that has failed to deliver on it's promises. Greece will run out of money in the next few weeks if nothing is done at this emergency meeting happening at the moment. The question is what can the Greeks do? Make another promise to pay up when they have no money or hand over control to the EU. The banks are already expecting to swallow a default and are VERY reluctant to shell out more cash which they say will be money down the drain unless EU governments guarantee the loans in stone. One of the last comments from an economic expert on Sky was "This is a very scary situation and they and in the next few days it will get even scarier." The banner at the bottom of the screen read 'Berlin has already accepted that Greece will leave the euro.'
Message posted by Sid Ari on 14 September 2011 at 4:49pm - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by Rocky and Bill on 14 September 2011
But Sid, many British owners who shelled out 200,000 euros (or whatever) for property here did so when the exchange rate was much more favourable than it is today. Therefore, even if the investment value falls many will not lose anything like 50% of the actual cost, presuming they then repatriate their money in Britain. (OK, I accept this doesn't run true for other nationalities, but this site has a predominantly British membership).
Of course, those who have bought in the last year or two won't fair so well, but we've all been aware of recessions and economic crisis for a while now, so it would have been foolish to purchase property with the expectation of a good return on their investment in the near future.
For me it's helped me to make a decision about returning to the UK, I think I'll sit it out here for the moment - at least I have a roof over my head and no mortgage to pay!
Yes I agree some people did manage to get around 1.48 to the pound. By the time we had arranged all the paperwork etc to buy our house we got 1.20 to the pound. Which meant that on the initial transfer of £100,000 we got 120,000 euro, a year before we would have got 147,000 euros, a loss of 27,000 euros. We have since spent around another £100,000 on building an extension, labour costs, improvements, licences,taxes etc etc. If Greece defaults, leaves the euro and re-introduces the Drachma then my worry is that if I ever did sell the house, which I don't plan to as it is an inheritance for my kids, I would have to sell in Drachmas. What will the Drachma be worth? If my property is worth 1 billion Drachma and the Drachma is 250,000 (similar to the Turkish Lira) to the pound for example then the spiral down just gets worse. I am financially secure and can ride this out as I don't have to sell but I spare a thought for those who rely on pensions etc and do not have a chance of returning to the UK if things get really drastic.
Message posted by J&L on 14 September 2011 at 5:22pm - IP Logged
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As others have said - you pay your money and take your choice - I prefer the way the FT are presenting current events:-
"Angela Merkel, Germany’s chancellor, sought to quash speculation that a Greek default was imminent, insisting that no such event could happen before 2013 when the eurozone’s permanent rescue fund, the European Stability Mechanism, is due to come into operation.
Ms Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy, the French president, are holding a conference with George Papandreou, the Greek prime minister. The purpose would be to assure Mr Papandreou of their support for his “almost superhuman efforts” in reforming the Greek economy and curbing its borrowing,"
Message posted by TopCars on 14 September 2011 at 5:27pm - IP Logged
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True J&L .. as we have said, no one knows what the outcome will be for sure. The Mail also carries a good article which includes the paragraph : In a three-way conference call later today, German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French president Nicolas Sarkozy will press Athens to honour its national austerity pledges in return from more bail-out cash from Europe.
The alternative, the Greek government is being warned, is national bankruptcy and a rupture in the single currency.
Greece has warned it will run out of cash in a few weeks and needs an 8 billion euro tranche next month to pay wages and pensions.
Quite honestly unless anyone can actually claim to have bugged wherever the various prime ministers/chancellor etc are meeting no one really knows what is being said- especially if they rely on the Murdoch press who control an awful lot of the media at the moment- let's just wait and see instead of panicking- and as Rocky and Bill say most people bought when the exchange rates were different- anyone buying abroad must have known they were taking a chance, but presumably loved the place they were buying enough to risk it, so remember the good times also! Where you choose to live is not governed entirely by its investment potential, lots of other factors play a part too.
Message posted by trisa on 14 September 2011 at 6:45pm - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by Sid Ari on 14 September 2011
Quote: Originally posted by trisa on 14 September 2011
You are most definitely a glass half empty person!
We have no idea what is going to happen. If and when it does happen, there will be nothing we can do about it except go back to where we came from. Is that an option for you because I still feel privileged to live here and wouldn't want to have to go down that road. I can't see that it would be any better and in many ways it could be a lot worse!
Good news or bad - that's life and we have to get on with it!
Trisa
I would say I am a realist with a strong economic interest in this, not a 'bury my head in the sand' type. Having invested 200,000 euros in a property here then I would say that this news is very important for any one with ties to Corfu and Greece. Yes, I do have the option of going back to the UK as I still have a house there too but that is not why I bought a house in Corfu. I was only quoting the ongoing reports by Sky news and economic experts and politicians including Greek ones. Maybe they are 'most definitely a glass half empty people too. I agree, we don't know for sure what will happen but talk of no more handouts has never been so strong. Let's hope the experts are wrong and you are right.
I too am a realist and realise that whatever the outcome, there is probably nothing I can do about it. I am certainly not burying my head in the sand. I am also certainly not going to spend my time worrying myself sick about what could happen next especially when I can't change the outcome one iota. Life is too short as it is. I will worry when we have something concrete to worry about.
We moved here 10 years ago with no thoughts on having a property as an investment. Even back then properties could be on the market for years. We have probably spent a lot more than €200 over the years but always knew that we probably would never get that money back as we have no thoughts of selling.
Jan is absolutely right when she says, 'anyone buying abroad must have known they were taking a chance, but presumably loved the place they were buying enough to risk it, so remember the good times also! Where you choose to live is not governed entirely by its investment potential, lots of other factors play a part too.
Of course the Greek economy is hugely important news.
All we can do is wait and see and hope for the best.
Trisa
Message posted by SusieH on 14 September 2011 at 6:52pm - IP Logged
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Pre Euro days Greece existed mainly on what it could produce itself with the notable exception of some imported beef and cars from Germany - the cars carrying a high import tax
I can remember, not so long go, when the only cereals in the shops were a Greek produced version of cornflakes
Bananas were almost unheard of and vegetables and fruit were home produced in season
You would hardly ever find foreign manufactured tinned food, sweets or biscuits on the shelves of supermarkets, even foreign made cigarettes were in the minority
What would be so wrong in going back to this? OK tourists might miss their baked beans and Kellogs cornflakes but I can certainly live without that sort of thing
If the drachma was allowed to find its own level of value they would attract more tourists because it would be a cheaper place to visit
I can appreciate the fears of people who own property but we all know a lot of property is already over priced and not selling, the owners having unrealistic expectations
I am sure, if Greece did default and left the Euro there would be a period of tough times while everything re-adjusted, but I am sure they would be better off in the long run.
Message posted by sue avrio on 14 September 2011 at 8:16pm - IP Logged
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It is the older generation who are looking for the return of the 'good old drachma'. They seem to think everything will suddenly become much cheaper and do not understand this it will be just another currency to trade against the euro. They do not realise how much is imported and how heavily they rely on tourism. Do they think things like oil will just suddenly reduce in price? The only items which will become cheaper will be home produced such as fish, fruit & veg which could allow restaurants to lower their price and therefore attract more tourism but it will not happen. Will my builder suddenly reduce his rates - I doubt it!!! Interesting times.
Message posted by red zorba on 14 September 2011 at 8:47pm - IP Logged
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There is only one thing worse than being short of a few bob in the sun and that is being short of a few bob in the cold.
Lets hope it works out OK for everyone,
Message posted by C4owner on 14 September 2011 at 9:55pm - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by Sid Ari on 14 September 2011
True but shelling out 200,000 euros to realise that your investment is now worth only 100,000 and taxes and costs on it are increasing every week is a bitter pill to swallow ...
Property should never be considered as an 'investment' as there are always substantial running costs including repairs and taxes involved with ownership
One should always buy a property as somewhere you want to live and enjoy
The current value is irrelevant, no matter what your age, unless you really need to sell and buy elsewhere
If you had been renting a similar property how much would you have paid out over a similar period?
That really is 'dead' money and rent you have to find until the day you meet your maker.
Owning a house outright means your monthly outgoings don't include rent, which for some, means that they can still survive between meagre pension payments and are highly unlikely to face eviction...
Message posted by tully on 14 September 2011 at 10:37pm - IP Logged
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A house is only worth what someone agrees to pay for it.
We bought our place back in the days of Euro 1.50 to the £1.00, but we never saw it as an investment to sell. It was always a place to retire too, a home.
People who own homes in UK are losing them as the ecomonic situation hits, youngsters are staying in the family home a lot longer now, as most don't have the 30% needed for a deposit.
So any property bought as an investment, has the tendency to go up or down in value, due to economic circumstances.
Lets hope Greece finds her way out of the turmoil she's in at the moment, but it's going to take time. In the meantime people will holiday there and spend much needed cash.
Message posted by Lavinia on 14 September 2011 at 11:49pm - IP Logged
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I don't know about anyone else but my glass is half full this evening having watched the news...it will soon be completely empty but will be refilled pronto. And dare I say that I am sure Trisa is in a similar situation! A temporary reprieve maybe, but a reprieve nonetheless. What do you think Bruce? I always read your comments with great interest.
Message posted by 2Tonsils on 15 September 2011 at 9:08am - IP Logged
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I am not worrying about all the speculation...I am just going to enjoy my house in Sinarades until the day I die...like I planned to do when I bought it. I am looking ahead and planning for the winter as I think it might be a tough one in more ways than one. But the sun is still glorious, my neighbours are still the loveliest people in the world, I have a bit more time to stock up my wood pile and I wake up in paradise every morning. All the news channels, papers etc are full of propoganda and I am sick of it. Que sera sera...
Message posted by bunty1 on 15 September 2011 at 9:26am - IP Logged
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Well said 2Tonsils I agree we bought our house to live in until we die no thoughts off selling, the children can fight over it when we've gone lol but meantime we will enjoy it and I think if Greece go us broke the neighbours will still bring us wine and veg and olive oil so we will survive!!!
Message posted by trisa on 15 September 2011 at 9:35am - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by 2Tonsils on 15 September 2011
I am not worrying about all the speculation...I am just going to enjoy my house in Sinarades until the day I die...like I planned to do when I bought it. I am looking ahead and planning for the winter as I think it might be a tough one in more ways than one. But the sun is still glorious, my neighbours are still the loveliest people in the world, I have a bit more time to stock up my wood pile and I wake up in paradise every morning. All the news channels, papers etc are full of propoganda and I am sick of it. Que sera sera...
I'm with you 2Tonsils! My sentiments entirely! Grow old disgracefully and become an embarrassment to the kids! (Just kidding about that last bit!)
I can't believe that people build here as an investment however much they spend on a property.
Maybe 15 - 20 years ago when you could buy properties for peanuts it may have been a possibility. There are properties in our village that have been on the market for 15 years. Even were I to consider putting our place on the market I wouldn't bank on selling it in under four years unless I were desperate and prepared to take a serious loss.
When we built, we deliberately built larger than we needed as we worked on the theory that it was easier than adding to it later. The net result is that we have a house larger than most would want for a holiday home. That was our decision and we have to live with it.
With or without the current economic climate, I cannot imagine anyone building here as an investment if they are reliant upon a quick return.
There are many new properties on the outskirts of our village for sale including one villa type property that has never been occupied to the best of our knowledge. I will be interested to see how long the 'For Sale' signs stay up for.
Finally, to keep this post on topic, it irritates how the media are so desperate for Greece to default (possible) or the Euro to go to the wall. (Won't happen - Germany won't allow it!)
However things turn out, most of us will still be here this time next year, assuming that whatever higher force you subscribe to permits!
Bob G.
Message posted by janmanessi on 15 September 2011 at 12:55pm - IP Logged
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SusieH I can remember, not so long go, when the only cereals in the shops were a Greek produced version of cornflakes
Bananas were almost unheard of and vegetables and fruit were home produced in season
You would hardly ever find foreign manufactured tinned food, sweets or biscuits on the shelves of supermarkets, even foreign made cigarettes were in the minority
Sid Ari Imported goods will rocket in price and with Greece relying on mostly imported goods, this very bad news all round.
Susie H: Like you I would cope with reverting to this situation most happily! So much is available now that we really do not need! Only caveat might be the bananas- do you remember chasing trucks selling them illicitly on street corners by lamplight, it is quite nice to see them openly on display, except that they are the more tasteless variety!
Sid Ari: whilst obviously things have to be imported there is an awful lot of unnecessary things coming into the country now, just when they neither need them or can afford them.
Message posted by SusieM on 15 September 2011 at 2:04pm - IP Logged
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SusieH, Jan
I too remember those days and longed for CADBURYs chocy, decent cerials, decent MILK as in those days the fresh milk was disgusting & totally undrinkable, only two types of biscuits, one type of yoghurt and yes you could certainly exist on that but I love the variety and am very grateful the choice is there.
Lavinia, yes very very interesting stuff re Karamalis and totally agree with you he is made of much better material...
Am over for an unexpected LONG weekend in October & cant wait meanwhile hope to see you at Xmas so maybe a pre Xmas supper with a few golden oldies??xx
xx
Message posted by janmanessi on 15 September 2011 at 2:15pm - IP Logged
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Susie- I take Ion chocolate to UK for Greeks there who long for it even now! Everyone misses things from home if they move abroad but they have to adapt.
We all wanted things we couldn't have but we really did not need them (re the milk I know I was spoilt as we had our cows then). I agree the variety now is great, but noone is trying to stop having that, just less importing- do we really need French yoghurts etc. when there are perfectly good Greek ones- and I know of one butcher who proudly announced that he brought all his meat from France...why?
The standards of commercially produced Greek products is also much higher now, so another argument for supporting local!
Message posted by Susanna on 15 September 2011 at 2:57pm - IP Logged
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Well I can remember when the only milk available in the shops was Corfiot and it usually went off before you could even get it home. Don't miss that at all!
Message posted by SusieM on 15 September 2011 at 5:03pm - IP Logged
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Jan I totally agree to support the local produce and as for importing French yoghurt is totally rediculous as the Greek Yoghurts are extremely good and a much better choice than the UK. Re the butcher importing meat from wherever well I have to say that the cows I have seen in Greece have a lot to be desired not to mention the sheep; all I have ever seen are of the skinny variety; chickens well give me the Greek ones any day (to date).
We appeared to have side tracked... what was the initial topic ah yes Greece to default. My concern is keeping any substantial money in the Greek Banks.. whoops thats another topic.
bye
Message posted by Elliemay on 15 September 2011 at 6:31pm - IP Logged
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Hi,
If you want really good meat there is a butchers shop just outside Sidari. Just take the road past Diellas towards Arillas and carry on up that road, it is just on the left and we have always found that his meat is exceptional. In fact I believe that a lot of the restaurants in Sidari also use him.
Message posted by dessidog on 15 September 2011 at 9:02pm - IP Logged
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Live in Austria - small country - lots of money being paid to Greece from our government - our government has always been the "good boy in the EU"!!! As you all know that EU money has not always been spent very well!! See road to Sidari - big with lighting for a few coaches and bikers!! Never been any control for what the money has been used for! EU fault - Greece is an important NATO border!
But on a personal front - building a little house in Corfu since 2007 - should have been finished 2009 - now have had to "rebuild" - lost about 70,000€ - our end of working life pay outs (Austria after 40 years of solid work!!) through a developer guy we believed in - another issue not for here.
But we still love Corfu for all sorts of reasons - and are carrying on with the help of good Greek friends.
Greece has always had a very "coloured" past re its genuine finances - see after 1st WW!! It is not just a Greek phenomena but a southern European one - very different to N Europe - Austria is sort of in the middle!! The handshaking for favours mentality is here! But at the end of the day the sad thing is that none of us, whichever country we are in can actually determine our destiny (as an ex CND 60s demonstrator very hard to swallow!!)
Whatever happens in the next year - our love of Corfu and our friends and their integrity will not waver - at the end of the day - it is the people that count.
Message posted by Barrow Boy on 15 September 2011 at 9:07pm - IP Logged
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What's wanting a curry got to do with mozzies? You should know that by now all topics meander on to other subjects, just as conversations do. It's the way of the world!!!
Message posted by Barrow Boy on 15 September 2011 at 9:36pm - IP Logged
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Going back on topic, the dinosaurs died out waiting to see whether Greece would default and what would happen to the euro.
In anticipation of Greece leaving the euro, I have avoided moving funds out to my Greek bank account, in the expectation that a conversion of Greek euros to the drachma, followed by an immediate de-valuation of the drachma, would leave me seriously short changed.
Yours trying to adapt to change but maybe I have the wrong end of the stick?
BB.
Message posted by jrk on 19 September 2011 at 6:14pm - IP Logged
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"The International Monetary Fund (IMF) has told Greece it needs better tax collection and deeper spending cuts, not higher taxes, to avert its crisis.
The warning comes as Greece prepares for further funding talks with the IMF, the European Central Bank (ECB) and the European Commission. It is trying to persuade them to release the next 8bn-euro (£7bn, $11bn) instalment of its EU-IMF loan. Greece needs this money by next month to avoid defaulting on its debt".
One half of me agrees, saving me property tax. But the other half says that that this would this result in poorer services such as road repair, education, medical services, not good. Which option should Greece go for?
Message posted by Sid Ari on 20 September 2011 at 2:01pm - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by Barrow Boy on 15 September 2011
Going back on topic, the dinosaurs died out waiting to see whether Greece would default and what would happen to the euro.
In anticipation of Greece leaving the euro, I have avoided moving funds out to my Greek bank account, in the expectation that a conversion of Greek euros to the drachma, followed by an immediate de-valuation of the drachma, would leave me seriously short changed.
Yours trying to adapt to change but maybe I have the wrong end of the stick?
BB.
Maybe you should read this from the Athens News on what may well happen if Greece defaults :
As Viliardos points out, an official “credit event” would disrupt an extremely fragile domestic economic deadlock.
To avert social chaos, looting and a run on Greek banks by desperate depositors, a declaration of default must necessarily be coupled with a mandatory “bank holiday” for a few days.
This would be followed by strict limitations on deposit withdrawals (of, for example, up to 150 euros per week for each account).
Message posted by trisa on 20 September 2011 at 3:19pm - IP Logged
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I think what is scary having just returned from 2 weeks in Sidari is the fact that many Corfiot/Greek people will have a seriously bad winter and I am not refering to the weather. Food prices are crazy and to have 23% VAT on drinks including orange and milk and other food is beyond a joke and even water is not kept out of it albeit at a lower rate. Petrol prices higher than the UK as well.
We saw many people begining to plow their land which according to one Greek friend shows just how serious the situation is on Corfu with the tax rises.
House building is almost at a standstill and many people who would normally work in the building industry in the winter months having no work at all, that coupled next year with more "All Inclusive" places will hit more Bars and Tavernas and may well mean they will close down joining those already closed.
Having looked through a brochure produced by an estate agency in Corfu town last week it is clear that many people who built quite large houses with pools in the last 10 years or so are desperate to sell now that the New Tax laws are begining to bite.
The sad thing is that the Greek government may well be pricing people on Corfu out of their own Island and tourism may well drop heavily due to the increasing costs.
Message posted by Sid Ari on 20 September 2011 at 5:26pm - IP Logged
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Didn't I read somewhere that Germany wanted islands from Greece in exchange for the debt? Might they want Corfu? (a bit tongue in cheek but, you never can tell)
Message posted by Sid Ari on 20 September 2011 at 5:51pm - IP Logged
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Greece since 1974 has only made progress when external creditors have put pressure on Greece to bring its finances, or the appearances of its finances, under control - normally to meet some kind of deadline - like EU membership in 1981 and EMU membership in the late 90s - other than that it has been business as usual - whether you voted for PASOK or Nea Democratia - for the Papandereou Clan or the Karamalis clan - its was all about dishing out the spoils of the state to your voters - it was always the same - in return for the ever expanding public service numbers and payroll bill and the virtually non-existent tax collecting services - the Greek people allowed their politicians do what they wanted personally - the Greek spending of EU funds during the 80s and 90s was an international scandal - Greece has always been top of the heap when it comes to deficit - it just goes on and on.
Where does Greece go from here? - a situation they have arrived at time and time again in their history - each time believing that some foreign fairy godmother is going wave a magic wand in the nick of time and they can go off partying again - I dont think it is going to happen this time...they really are running out of road - they will have to really resolve to turn over a new leaf this time and take their medicine - in the euro or out of the euro - default or not.
Their main issue is that Greece has no longer got any major military or geo-political significance any more - there is no reason for any imperial or cold war patron to bail them out of the financial hole they are in this time. Even the Norwegians have suspended their aid programme to Greece - all 50 million of it - these were the reasons for British, Western European and American financial rescues before.
Message posted by janmanessi on 20 September 2011 at 6:09pm - IP Logged
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