Message posted by stevie f on 13 September 2011 at 11:27pm - IP Logged
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stevie f
Hi all,
I have been to Corfu in May, June, August and will go again in October. If it wasn't for the low flight prices we would probably only go once a year as it has become quite expensive now in the village where we own an apartment.
It is not only the Greek government who is to blame for the high prices of food and drinks in the Tavernas and Bars. It is also the weakness of the pound.
We bought our property 5 years ago and the exchange rate was 1.47 to the pound. This gave us great spending power and we ate out every night and went to the bars afterwards.
In our village it is now 6 euro for a Magners Cider, 12 euro for a special Pizza and a typical meal out for a family of 4 with a main meal and one drink only costing 50 euros.
We have Greek friends as well as English and Dutch and we all agree that Corfu will not compete with other major destinations unless the business owners cut their profit margin and get back to the old "Greek way" of hospitality. This sadly is not the view of the owners though as their season is now so short they are reluctant to reduce prices as they cannot guarantee it would bring in more business.
I can't remember the last time I had a welcome Ouzo in a Taverna or small Meze with a drink.
Get real owners, there is a deep recession on and if you don't respond positivly you won't have any customers at all.
Kind Regards, Stevie.
Message posted by Viv D on 13 September 2011 at 11:43pm - IP Logged
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I am not putting this as an argument I am just stating a fact so do not think I am being rude to your comments but can I just state.
I cannot remember ever in my 50 something years ever being offered a welcoming drink in an English establishment even though I may have frequented the establishment on a regular basis. Recession or no recession. So why should we expect the Corfiot people (who are having a very hard time themselves) hand out welcoming drinks to us?
Please do not all scream at me.
Viv
Message posted by Elliemay on 13 September 2011 at 11:45pm - IP Logged
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Hi Stevie,
Can I ask whereabouts you are talking about in Corfu?
We often get a free jug of wine with a meal and also free fruit at the end of a meal in our village and also other tavernas that we visit over the island.
I don't see that the business owners can cut their profit margins any more as the VAT on ALL food and drink went up to 23% recently and at the moment they are trying to absorb this cost without putting the prices up.
Message posted by stevie f on 13 September 2011 at 11:53pm - IP Logged
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stevie f
Hi Viv,
Because they used to do it and now they don't.
I have a menswear retail business and an Internet business so I know how difficult trade is and as a retailer we have to react to market forces.
Customer service is always the number one priority but once you given something to someone once it is bad practice to then take it away.
Regards, Stevie.
Message posted by janmanessi on 13 September 2011 at 11:53pm - IP Logged
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You complain about the price of cider in Corfu must be rather like complaining about the cost of Metaxas in England- neither are exactly local specialities and nor is pizza!
Local things are often offered to regular/good customers as a gesture of friendship.
Agree that businesses can no longer fully support two families (the owners and the renters) as to do this prices have to be far too high.
Message posted by stevie f on 14 September 2011 at 12:01am - IP Logged
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stevie f
Hi Elliemay,
We stay in Pelekas.
I know the margins are being squeezed by the increase in tax and are also being absorbed. It is also foolish to start a price war but little things make a big difference.
Some owners are making huge efforts for us and we of course appreciate it but these efforts are not the norm and should be for all customers.
Regards, Steve.
Message posted by NIGEL on 14 September 2011 at 12:07am - IP Logged
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Mmm, Magners and Pizza. Try eating like the Greeks and cut your costs, they cant. You are in a tourist resort therefore higher prices, get out to a local village you will find a big difference. If you have had enough then sell up and move elsewhere, good luck.
Message posted by Elliemay on 14 September 2011 at 12:10am - IP Logged
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Hi,
I don't actually agree with you. If you frequent one place more than another, then the owner recognises you and may or may not give you the added extras. I don't expect them but am more than appreciative when I get them. After all I haven't paid for them. I really don't understand where you're coming from to expect these things. Yes, probably five or six years ago the taverna and restaurant owners could do this all the time but with the current economic climate and increase in taxes, how do you expect them to afford to do this now?
Message posted by Lavinia on 14 September 2011 at 12:22am - IP Logged
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Sorry, Stevie, have to disagree. Of course it depends on where you go, but we frequently are offered free fruit at the end of a meal, or a free carafe of wine.
However, we live here permanently, and therefore are very regular customers throughout the year and this may have a bearing on this but I do not see this as being "anti-tourist" (as was inferred), just an appreciation of year round and regular custom.
I am very surprised that any taverna owner anywhere on the island can actually afford to offer any kind of freebie considering the difficulties they are all facing,
If you compare the cost of buying, cooking and serving a plate of food at home and then add on the cost of staff, VAT, other taxes, ambiance, rent etc. it is still very good value south of Corfu Town where we live.
Message posted by stevie f on 14 September 2011 at 12:23am - IP Logged
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stevie f
Hi Janmanessi,
OK! A big draught beer costing 3.5 euro, a mousaka at 8 euro. That is still £3.18 per beer and £7.27 for a Greek meal.
The problem is the owners need to take a good look at what is happening outside of Corfu and adopt a business plan accordingly. Looking internaly is too narrow a view.
Corfu has had it good for a long time and now it is difficult it is time to look at why they attracted so many visitors in the past. That is not simply a matter of discounting but bringing back Greekness to the Island.
Regards, Stevie.
Message posted by Elliemay on 14 September 2011 at 12:29am - IP Logged
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Hi,
Don't know where you buy your beer from but in our local taverna and also in Acharavi you can get a big draught beer for 2.00/2.50 euros. Methinks that perhaps you need to shop around and if you don't like the prices don't go there.
Message posted by NIGEL on 14 September 2011 at 12:31am - IP Logged
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That is not simply a matter of discounting but bringing back Greekness to the Island.
Then drink Greek beer and not Magners. Oh and you are a bit out on the exchange rate you have used, its cheaper than you posted. The trouble is that tourists, yes you and me, have asked for this and that and then we complain at the prices, if there was no demand for imported beer then they wouldn't sell it?
Message posted by stevie f on 14 September 2011 at 12:34am - IP Logged
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stevie f
Hi Nigel,
This opinion is not only mine but the opinion of Greek, English and Dutch people who we come into contact with in several resorts.
Why would I want to sell up from the Island I love and where I have many friends? I find your comment very aggressive and irrelevent.
This post is a genuine disscusion on the future of Corfu from the people who love it and want to become busy again. This won't happen if we all turn a blind eye and accept everything that we are given.
Regards, Stevie.
Message posted by NIGEL on 14 September 2011 at 12:42am - IP Logged
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Why would you want to sell up?? You seem fed up with "high prices" and lack of freebies as far as I can tell from your first post, yet you dont seem to understand the pain the Greek people are going through!! Its just me me me all the time. You need to reflect on how lucky you are to visit Corfu 4 times a year then not moan about the price of drinks and meals, think about the Greeks and not yourself. Last post on this subject.
Message posted by stevie f on 14 September 2011 at 12:44am - IP Logged
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stevie f
Hi Elliemay,
You have hit the nail on the head. Why should it be more expensive in Pelekas?
Hey, I love the people and the village I'm just having a rant about the prices they charge because they are more expensive than other places in Corfu and they wonder why they are quiet.
Kisses to all , Stevie.
Message posted by diane and steve on 14 September 2011 at 12:55am - IP Logged
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Well surely then Pelekas needs to look at their prices for it's future, not the whole of Corfu?
We go there 5 times a year too and are amazed at the low prices compared to the UK and the freebies too
We have a house in Petriti and prices are still low
Message posted by stevie f on 14 September 2011 at 1:01am - IP Logged
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stevie f
Hi Lavinia,
Good point and taken in as always.
Regards, Stevie
Message posted by stevie f on 14 September 2011 at 1:03am - IP Logged
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stevie f
Hi Diane and Steve,
Agreed! Very Strange.
Regards,Stevie.
Message posted by Lavinia on 14 September 2011 at 1:06am - IP Logged
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Thanks for that comment Stevie. I sometimes feel that my comments are regarded as rather old-fashioned! If you would like to meet up, we are not far away so just send me a pm.
Very best wishes as I am sure we both just want Corfu to prosper...
Message posted by Lavinia on 14 September 2011 at 1:09am - IP Logged
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Hi Stevie,
Could you possibly point out politely to the restaurants/tavernas in Pelekas that they are charging much more than other places on the island and as so may not get further custom from the tourists. Just a thought!!!
I know that this is a very difficult subject and it also depends on what they pay in regard to other places on the island to their suppliers.
Either way, I just love Corfu and all the Corfiots, have been here for six months now and never been happier. But it's still too darn hot!!!
Message posted by stevie f on 14 September 2011 at 1:23am - IP Logged
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stevie f
Hi Lavinia,
Back on 8th October, if you want to meet up then I will pm you.
We all have the same goal, we just go about it in a different way.
Kalinikta fili mou!
Stevie
Message posted by stevie f on 14 September 2011 at 1:31am - IP Logged
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stevie f
Hi Elliemay,
We have tried really hard to explain different ways to do business in Pelekas but, I think because of returning customers from the boom time in the 80's they are reluctant to change.
I think their licences may be dearer due to this.
We will keep trying...
Regards, Stevie.
Message posted by Elliemay on 14 September 2011 at 1:39am - IP Logged
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Hi,
I agree that all of us Brits that love Corfu should do all that we can to keep the Corfiot economy stable, but I, probably as you am not rich so we do the best that we can. Let's hope that our little bit of help works to some extent!!!
Message posted by stevie f on 14 September 2011 at 1:40am - IP Logged
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stevie f
Hi All,
By the way, I do drink Greek beer and eat Greek food. It was the tourists that were complaining to me about the Magners and the Pizza. But, hey, I like them for a change too!
Lots of love, Stevie.
Message posted by Elliemay on 14 September 2011 at 1:46am - IP Logged
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Hi Stevie,
What I wouldn't do at the moment for roast beef and Yorkshire pud, but that's another topic completely. I know that you can get it here in some of the tourist resorts but it ain't the same as in England!!!
Message posted by seaangler (Chat Room Administrator) on 14 September 2011 at 1:56am - IP Logged
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seaangler
I can get Magners cider for less than 45p a bottle here in England...
Message posted by stevie f on 14 September 2011 at 1:56am - IP Logged
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stevie f
Ha! Ha! Lavinia,
It's a short life, say what you think, eat what you want and treat people with respect.
Kind Regards, Stevie.
Message posted by stevie f on 14 September 2011 at 2:03am - IP Logged
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stevie f
Seaanngler,
The last of human freedoms - the ability to chose one's attitude in a given set of circumstances.
Nice..and very apt.
Stevie.
Message posted by Sid Ari on 14 September 2011 at 3:06am - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by janmanessi on 13 September 2011
You complain about the price of cider in Corfu must be rather like complaining about the cost of Metaxas in England- neither are exactly local specialities and nor is pizza!
Wrong. The Greeks invented pizza. From Wikipedia :
Origins: The Ancient Greeks covered their bread with oils, herbs and cheese. In Byzantine Greek, the word was spelled πίτα or pita, meaning pie. The word has now spread to Turkish as pide,[2] Serbo-Croatian and Bulgarian as pita, Albanian as pite and Modern Hebrew pittāh.[3] The Romans developed placenta, a sheet of flour topped with cheese and honey and flavored with bay leaves. Modern pizza originated in Italy as the Neapolitan pie with tomato. In 1889, cheese was added.[4]
Message posted by Sid Ari on 14 September 2011 at 3:12am - IP Logged
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Just to add the word 'pizza' comes from the Greek word 'pita' meaning pie. The Italians adopted it and made it popular and added tomato paste in 1889. Oh and Magners was invented by the Irish ... lol.
Message posted by Ellenjay on 14 September 2011 at 9:21am - IP Logged
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Ekathimerini today is saying that numbers of tourists from abroad to Greece have been up this year.
Yes I realise this does not mean profits are up, and there will be some places doing well and others not so well. Hopefully this is the link:- Here
Message posted by jbtapscott on 14 September 2011 at 9:27am - IP Logged
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We had a friend stay with us in the south recently - her second holiday after a family one on the north earlier this year. She couldn't get over how much cheaper everything was in the restaurants down here.
The main courses here (including pizzas!) are mostly in the EUR 6-9 bracket(with Greek meals being on the lower end of this scale) and a large Mythos is EUR 3. Yes, the steaks and some fish are more expensive, but as others have said on the forum, you need to eat "local" to get the best prices. We have also heard tourists complaining about prices but then watched them eat / drink imported stuff.
There may also be an issue with the restaurants baseline expenses - are the rentals they pay for the properties higher in the north (perhaps the landlords perception is that the north is where the "rich" go and therefore rentals can be higher)?.
Overall though I agree that there is a very fine line to tread - we have "lost" at least one restaurant each year for the last few years in this resort and the reason each time has been "I can't afford the costs any more"
Message posted by C4owner on 14 September 2011 at 11:02am - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by stevie f on 14 September 2011
OK! A big draught beer costing 3.5 euro, a mousaka at 8 euro. That is still £3.18 per beer and £7.27 for a Greek meal.
You can't keep using the exchange rate as a justification for the higher costs your suffering.
Those costs are comparable to what you would pay in the UK in some areas and would cost more in others.
The original idea of the EU was to have a 'common market' and a harmonisation of tax rates etc. across the market, which did mean that those regions with a lower cost of living would see standards of living improve and price rises to come into line with everyone else.
That still hasn't completely happened though due to government intransigence and economic circumstances far beyond the control of individual business owners.
Whilst I love the North East of Corfu, the cost of holidaying there is, for me very expensive in comparison to my income since I retired.
Some 'resorts' are mainly that, a holiday resort with low winter populations with the majority of businesses having a short trading season and closing for 6 or more months of the year. Other parts of the island depend far less on tourism and have a steadier income across the whole year, from the local populous, in which to spread their costs out, which is why prices will always vary across Corfu.
However, I do understand that business owners on the island have to make enough money in a background of a seemingly ever shortening season and spiralling costs, so they can live for the whole year and wouldn't think of asking them to give me something for nothing.
But they often do as others have said, give a half carafe of wine for free, or a free drink. That is really appreciated and often repaid via a larger tip than usual.
That way they keep the Greek tradition for hospitality alive and I personally don't feel guilty about accepting the hospitality I know they can ill afford.
Everyone needs to understand that the days of 'cheap' holidays are over and stop complaining about the rising costs of everything which, the majority of people have little or no control over and think about the people who work very hard to make a living supporting tourists to their country.
Message posted by lorac on 14 September 2011 at 11:20am - IP Logged
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I agree with Lavinia, we were given fruit, drink, mezes. in differant locations in the south, not in every place we eat, but in at least 60%. So the old Greek hospitality is still around, and we thought the food prices were not much different than last year. lorac.
Message posted by shilpa on 14 September 2011 at 11:33am - IP Logged
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Stevie f - one thing occured to me whilst reading this discussion, on some points I kind of slightly agree with you but when you say you expect to get a freebie where-ever you go I think thats not only wrong but quite rude. You say you are in the menswear business, do you therefore, give away free shirts, ties etc??
We holiday in the south and many places where we go always offer complimentry drinks and ice creams for the children every time we go but we still do not expect it because at the end of the day these people have wages and bills to pay which are also on the increase, so maybe we should always bear in mind that whatever they give us complimentry, they are actually having to pay for it! We dont get it in the UK so why expect it when you go on holidays? And as in the UK and other countries you always get different areas that are more expensive than others, its the norm isnt it??
Message posted by BruceAndMaria (Born again CTG member) on 14 September 2011 at 11:56am - IP Logged
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(1)Here at my local pub in the UK my wife ask if I could get her a drop more lemonade in her Brandy..which I did and it cost me a extra 17p for a half inch of lemonade and this was after spending £40 during the evening in a place I always used.
(2)At my local in Kassiopi she ask the same thing..only this time I was given a small bottle of Sprite free of charge and a apology.
Bruce
Message posted by car864 on 14 September 2011 at 12:04pm - IP Logged
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You should have a wonder up the strip in Sidari Sid, they where plying me with free shots every night when I was there in August ha, & my fav bar Alex would often give me a cold beer with out taking any thing for it, in fact if you shopped about you you eat & drink very reasonable, I know theres probably a difference from me being there for 2 weeks to probably yourself a couple months,
Message posted by razaker on 14 September 2011 at 12:15pm - IP Logged
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Message posted by seaangler (Chat Room Administrator) on 14 September 2011 at 12:25pm - IP Logged
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seaangler
Oh and Magners was invented by the Irish ...
And I can still by it at 40p a bottle ... and less..
Message posted by stevie f on 14 September 2011 at 12:30pm - IP Logged
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stevie f
Shipla,
"you say you expect to get a freebie where-ever you go i think thats not only wrong but quite rude."
There is nothing in any of my posts that says i expect a freebie wherever i go.
All my comments are made in a genuine interest to try and find solutions to the problems that face local Tavernas and Bars.
Also, we do give away ties when someone buys a suit. We give away CD's and tickets to see local bands. Keyrings, badges and other things throughout the year. We have Sales twice a year and very competative in the market we are in.
Car864, I spend all of my holiday money in Corfu over 5 or 6 weeks of the year so, don't even go there.
Stevie
Message posted by shilpa on 14 September 2011 at 12:36pm - IP Logged
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In our village we usually have 'a one from us now' carafe with our meals and free fruit or yogurt - it is a nice touch but sometimes one carafe too many
We take small gifts with us when we go over as our locals are very good to us. The eggs, wine, olive oil and veg that is given is wonderful and plentiful.
Longing to be back! Only 12 days to go
Alison
Message posted by stevie f on 14 September 2011 at 1:02pm - IP Logged
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stevie f
Last post...
When you spend 100 euros in a Taverna and 80 euros in a Bar is it expectant to think the owners may give you something small in return?
Respect to everyone who joined in the discussion but please focus on the subject itself which is your opinion on "Corfu The Future"
Kind Regards, Steve.
Message posted by Susanna on 14 September 2011 at 2:04pm - IP Logged
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From the minute you start a business in Corfu you are taking on a commitment to a)your landlord, b) the taxman and c) the national insurance system. Outgoings are HUGE and have to be met whether or not you are making any profit. I suppose you could argue that if you lower your prices enough you will attract customers, but you certainly won't make yourself popular with your neighbours!
Perhaps in the "good old days" when a meal in a Greek taverna was cheap as chips, it was because the premises were owner occupied and labour costs were minimal.
Interesting topic, though.
Message posted by janmanessi on 14 September 2011 at 2:10pm - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by Susanna on 14 September 2011
From the minute you start a business in Corfu you are taking on a commitment to a)your landlord, b) the taxman and c) the national insurance system. Outgoings are HUGE and have to be met whether or not you are making any profit. I suppose you could argue that if you lower your prices enough you will attract customers, but you certainly won't make yourself popular with your neighbours!
Perhaps in the "good old days" when a meal in a Greek taverna was cheap as chips, it was because the premises were owner occupied and labour costs were minimal.
Interesting topic, though.
But isn't that the same in which ever country you start a business?? Those facts don't only apply to Corfu.
Message posted by Sid Ari on 14 September 2011 at 2:17pm - IP Logged
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Lease for a seasonal taverna in a half decent location, seating up to, say 40 covers - rough estimate 20,000EUR
Rent for same - 1200EUR per month (for probably 7 months of the year, although the trading season is nearer 6 months) - 8400EUR.
Wages for one waiter - 30EUR per day, one kitchen help - 20EUR per day, and one chef 40EUR per day 2700EUR per month, say 6 months of the year 16,200EUR.
IKA for staff - 4,050EUR for season (I think!)
TEBAY for self - 450EUR per month during season (reduced amount during winter, don't know exactly what though)
Electricity, phone and water - obviously variable, but business electricity is more expensive than domestic, rough estimate 700EUR per month for the three.
* So, before we think about own income, premises decorating, maintenance costs, VAT, tax, advertising, printing (menus etc), consumables, (ie food, napkins, table cloths etc) we're looking at having to find about 32,850EUR, plus whatever repayment may be due on the loan for the leasehold.
Let's assume an average of 80 covers per day in high season (Late June to early September, say 11 weeks) and 20 covers per day in low (remaining 15 weeks), that's 8,260 covers each spending an average of 12EUR.
8,260 x 12 = 99,120EUR
Less Rent, wages etc = 32,850EUR
Residual = 66,270EUR
66,270EUR divided by 8,260 covers = 8,02EUR per cover left to cover all those items in the paragraph above marked *.
OK, this is just me playing, we can do anything with numbers if we try. But I'm trying to show that the average taverna owner does work to a very tight margin, especially if they don't own their property outright.
We've all seen the price of foodstuffs in Greece, especially imported goods. Add in the 23% VAT now payable by tavernas on prepared meals, tax on income, 2-3% bank charge for credit card transactions and of course the business owner actually earning sufficient to keep him/herself and family all year round and I suggest there isn't a great deal of manouvreability for lowering prices and giving away incentive gifts.
The economic problems of the island, let alone the country, won't be solved by a single act, nor will they be solved in a hurry. The economic future throughout Europe is very uncertain, and quibbling about, or even discussing, the rising price of a Magners and pizza in your local restaurant is unlikely to help show a clear path forward for Corfiot restauranteurs in the future!
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