Would be interested in people's opinions on what they think will happen with the economic situation in Greece. Not just what you think should happen but realistically what you think will happen.
Will the bailout go ahead ?
Will Greece return to the Drachma ?
Message posted by lily's gran on 29 April 2010 at 1:04pm - IP Logged
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I think the bail out must go ahead....otherwise the euro and the EEC will lose all credibility. The return to the Drachma would cost a fortune and the logistics would be horrendous in my humble opinion. Whatever is decided I hope it's quickly and that it is successful in restoring the Greek economy.
Pam
Message posted by jrk on 29 April 2010 at 1:05pm - IP Logged
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I'm not convinced (yet) that Greece will get it's bail out from the Euro zone - the Germans are still asking for certain guarantees as to where the money will go and there is still the possibility of legal action.
Ultimately, I think Greece will be forced to default due to an unwillingness to suffer the years of austerity that are to come as a result of the bail out and it will leave the euro behind. Not immediately, but give it a couple of years...
Martyn
Message posted by afcb1965 on 29 April 2010 at 1:15pm - IP Logged
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I think it's paddy power(the bookies) thats offering 4/2 on greece not having the euro in 1 years time...a bookie isn't often wrong.
Message posted by daveyh on 29 April 2010 at 1:48pm - IP Logged
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daveyh
The Germans are only stalling because they have an Election on 10th May and a decision now could affect the outcome.
Maybe the Euro will end. Portugal have been downgraded and so to have Spain now. We are in nearly as bad state but not in Euro which is why £ not to good against a weak Euro.
I can see larger Islands like Corfu, Rhodes seeking Independance (and their own currency) within 5 years. Groups campaigning now will grow in strength but it may have to be say Ionian Islands rather than just Corfu.
Message posted by Greekwife on 29 April 2010 at 2:35pm - IP Logged
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I really feel that Greece will have to be bailed out as the consequences for the Euro as a whole will be too great if they are not.
But if Greece were to leave the Euro - would we all wake up one morning to no more Euro in Greece (and total chaos) or would we have to have some sort of notice ?
Message posted by tackou on 29 April 2010 at 3:27pm - IP Logged
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I think the bail out will have to come as it would affect all the other countries struggling as well also it would be to exspensive and a lot of chaos to go back to the drachma
Message posted by tully on 29 April 2010 at 3:37pm - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by tully on 29 April 2010
How would people with Euro Mortgages stand if Greece/ Spain/ Portugal are kicked out off the Eurozone?
I suspect that your loan would be converted to whatever local currency replaced the Euro. If you borrowed Euros in the UK, then you would be unaffected (although what would happen to the Euro/Sterling exchange rate is anyone's guess, since in dropping out of the currency, the country would have defaulted on it's loans, in all probability, sending shock waves through the markets.
martyn
Message posted by Greekwife on 29 April 2010 at 4:20pm - IP Logged
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I am coming to the believe that Greece should sell some of the islands (not Corfu!)to Germany (as has been suggested) and wipe the debt clear and start again. Is their an another solution? Loans are all very well but can Greece cannot the huge repayments?
Message posted by J&L on 29 April 2010 at 5:30pm - IP Logged
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Europe will bail out Greece because most of the money Greece owes is to European banks - all the rest is just politics and public relations...seems to me that it is not betting shops that never lose, but banking!
Message posted by kerkyralover on 29 April 2010 at 6:31pm - IP Logged
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I hope all this talk of economic doom and gloom and 'junk' status of the Greek finances does not affect the price of my daily fixes of Mythos. I know tax evasion is a national hobby taken very seriously by all who participate and subject of immense pride and status at the local cafenions. Maybe this is why our beloved Greece is in this mess? BUT does it mean rising prices for the tourists or cheaper Mythos on the grounds of all the austerity the Greeks are being put under. Guess I'll find out soon enough
Message posted by Lavinia on 29 April 2010 at 9:13pm - IP Logged
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There have been so many economic scandals in the past few years in Greece involving high profile figures such as senior politicians and churchmen as well as businessmen. The only way out of this crisis to my mind is to make those high profile people who have been found to be corrupt pay, and pay economically. After all, this new government has inherited the mess created by their predecessors and it is the last government who should be paying for the "fine mess" they have got us into. I was really shocked by the price of petrol when I filled up my small "eco" car last week - from 35 euros to 50 euros in a month. This is going to have an enormous affect on prices generally - including (I am afraid) Mythos beer! I am obviously not an economist but don't believe Greece is alone in her difficulties. Spain, Portugal, Ireland (and dare I say) the UK are also in dire straits.
Message posted by windmill on 29 April 2010 at 10:00pm - IP Logged
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Greece: why did its economy fall so hard?
With Greece's economy in desperate trouble, Harry Wallop explains how the country got into such a mess.
By Harry Wallop, Consumer Affairs Editor
Published: 4:54PM BST 28 Apr 2010
Comments 18 | Comment on this article
Greece has long lived beyond its means and spent much of the last two centuries defaulting on its debts. Joining the euro was meant to put an end to all that. However, it merely seems to have exacerbated its problems.
It was no surprise to any economist that the European Union, at first, refused to allow the country to join the euro when the new currency started in 1999.
Quite simply, its debts were too high and inflation was out of control. By 2000, the EU finally allowed it to join, though there were suspicions at the time that Greece was operating a "limbo dance" – squeezing its figures to hit the stringent euro criteria, only for them to flip back to dangerous levels once it had entered. Indeed many believe Greece simply lied about its figures to gain entry.
At the time its inflation was 4 per cent, much higher than the European average, and was suffering from one in ten people out of work – a higher figure than currently in recession-hit Britain.
By joining the euro, however, it suddenly enjoyed substantially lower interest rates, because the it was able to borrow in euros. Whereas during the 1990s, Greece had frequently had to pay out 10 per cent or more (18 per cent in 1994) to borrow money, its rate fell dramatically to 3 per cent or 2 per cent.
Ben May, Greek economist at think tank Capital Economics, said: "Their mistake was to go out, borrow money and use it to fund huge wage growth, rather than pay down its already substantial debts."
Greece went on a spending spree, allowing public sector workers' wages to nearly double over the last decade, while it continued to fund one of the most generous pension systems in the world. Workers when they come to retire usually receive a pension equating to 92 per cent of their pre-retirement salary. As Greece has one of the fastest ageing populations in Europe, the bill to fund these pensions kept on mounting.
Tax evasion, endemic among Greece's wealthy middle classes, meant that the Government's tax revenues were not coming in fast enough to fund its outgoings.
Hosting the Olympics in 2004, which cost double the original estimate of €4.5 billion, only made matters worse.
By the start of this year Greece's debt had hit €300 billion, more than the entire value of its annual GDP. This is unlikely to fall quickly, as its current budget deficit – how much its borrowing exceeds tax receipts – is running at 13.6 per cent of its gross domestic product, twice the Eurozone average.
Things have come to a head because the international rating agencies have cut Greece's credit rating, concerned that it will default on its debts. This has the immediate effect – just as when a credit agency cuts a consumer's rating – of pushing up the cost of its borrowing, setting off a vicious spiral.
Message posted by DCV on 29 April 2010 at 10:13pm - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by Greekwife on 29 April 2010
Would it be advisable to move any money in accounts in Greece immediately ?
I don't really think this is required as Greek banks did not make risky investments. It was only a few years ago that mortages became available. Unlike UK banks, they didn't buy bad debts and declare them as assets to increae the value of the company (on paper).
Message posted by Bill on 29 April 2010 at 10:50pm - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by DCV on 29 April 2010
I think Christopher Humphrey's article in the Daily mail on page 15 said it all. Made things clearer for me being not so politically minded.
Christopher Humphry's article was a rehash of his father John's earlier article, nothing new at all.
Yes prices have gone up, but whilst I am sorry for the tourists who will lose their cheap drinks, I am sorrier for the ordinary Greeks who are paying prices for many things which are similar to those in UK but managing to support families in far lower salaries. A good salary for an experienced and well qualified professional in many field is 1300 Euros a month- how many people in UK have to pay rent and support a family on that kind of money?
They are paying for their government's mistakes, and remember it is not only Greece- four countries are known as the PIGS- Portugal,Ireland, Greece and Spain- and they may soon be joined by others- wait until the full costs of the 2012 Olympics are revealed.
In the meantime all we can do is get on with things and manage as best we can, and hope that those in charge now know what they are doing.
Message posted by yabutey on 30 April 2010 at 1:30am - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by jrk on 29 April 2010
I am coming to the believe that Greece should sell some of the islands (not Corfu!)to Germany (as has been suggested)
and wipe the debt clear and start again. Is their an another solution? Loans are all very well but can Greece cannot the huge repayments?
I know that this so called idea has been floating about for some time but, frankly, it is a shocking suggestion that a nation's territorial sovereignty should be threatened in return for financial assistance.
Which islands should the UK be forced to sell to Germany or the US if things get much worse here and how would we feel at the suggestion?
Message posted by tully on 30 April 2010 at 10:02am - IP Logged
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On BBC news this morning predicting the Euro will drop. Could be as low as 130euro to the pound by the end of the year. This could mean more people holidaying in Greece next year.
Message posted by Wynne on 30 April 2010 at 10:28am - IP Logged
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A couple of weeks ago it was reported that a UK government might'encourage' a devaluation to 1.00 to increase exports! The truth is there are so many factors involved nobody knows what is going to happen in the next few weeks leave alone by this time next year.
Message posted by MartynG on 30 April 2010 at 10:32am - IP Logged
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The UK does not have many islands like Greece,I beleive the UK bought Mauritius from the French-at least someone
told me this when I was there. If so not a new arrangement?
And the Russians sold Alaska,I think.
So selling islands maybe a solution, although a diificult one for Greeks.
Message posted by yabutey on 30 April 2010 at 2:57pm - IP Logged
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Greece has approx 160 inhabited and hundreds more uninhabited islands.
The UK has well over 1000 islands. Scotland alone has over 790, some 92 of which are inhabited. So the UK is approaching par with Greece in terms of number of islands.
Mauritius was ceded to Britain under the Treaty of Paris in 1814 at the end of the Napoleonic War. Russia was indeed sold to the US but that was in an era where large colonial powers did not really give a toss about the wishes of indiginous populations. Doubt that could happen nowadays under international law.
The other consideration is actual ownership of islands. As in the UK, many will be privately owned. Unless there is a set up similar to the National Trust in Greece I would be interested to know whether the option to actually sell off islands was available, notwithstanding that it would undoubtedly grate against the pride of Greeks to even contemplate the idea.
Cheers
Gerios
Message posted by fireball on 30 April 2010 at 3:40pm - IP Logged
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Napoleon sold Lousianna to the United States for fifteen million US dollars. What is that worth today - 100, 500 million or even 1 billion USA dollars? It has been done before....
What would Greece get for say a big island such as Crete, with a base on it, for instance?
Message posted by windmill on 30 April 2010 at 6:52pm - IP Logged
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Difference is, L is part of the North American continent and the base on Crete is American. Think the people of Crete would have something to say about it.
Message posted by Lavinia on 30 April 2010 at 7:42pm - IP Logged
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All this talk about selling off Greek islands to the Germans is beginning to unamuse me. There are still gaps in Corfu town which were caused by the Luftwaffe dropping bombs during WW2. I am sure you all have noticed the "gap" half-way down Mouragion? The Greek psyche is very firmly entrenched in land and to suggest that whole islands could be sold off to solve the national debt would be, I believe, completely unthinkable to any Greek. They know exactly who owns each olive tree and will fiercely protect every inch of their land. The current riots in Athens regarding the economic situation and the riots which took place after the death of Alexis Grigoropoulos will look like a tea-party compared with what will happen if anyone tries to take Greek islands. I, for one, will stand firmly alongside the Greeks. I demonstrated against the Junta (the Colonels) in the 1970s - had tear gas thrown at me and riot police threatening to beat me with batons and, even though I am getting much older now, will happily stand beside them again if need be.
Sorry everyone, rant over but I feel very strongly!
Message posted by Lavinia on 30 April 2010 at 7:54pm - IP Logged
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Well said Lavinia. (lovely name). All this talk about selling islands is total rubbish. If there indeed was any considerable money to be made (and there is not) from such an escapade, does anyone think that the Greek Government or more importantly, the Greek people would entertain such an action. Come on folks, let's get this post back to a sensible level.
Message posted by jrk on 30 April 2010 at 8:39pm - IP Logged
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It's difficult to predict what will happen as per the original post. Tangible solutions rather than analyses are difficult to come by so far as I can see? As an aside, I too was involved in student protest against the colonies (albeit with Greek student friends in the UK not at the front so to speak as you were) but I recall that it was a very much left against the right struggle. Was this your experience Lavinia?
Message posted by C4owner on 30 April 2010 at 9:01pm - IP Logged
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Reading: This Greece will (financially anyway) have been sold to the IMF, Banks and other Euro nations as they will dictate the measures required before any bale out is agreed:
On Friday, Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou told the country's parliament that the pain he was about to inflict on the nation, as part of the conditions of obtaining the bail-out cash, was necessary so "we can stand firmly on our feet".
"It is a patriotic duty to undertake this, with whatever political cost, which is tiny faced with the national cost of inaction... and indecision," he said.
The government is not releasing details of its mooted programme yet, and is probably waiting until after the annual May Day demonstrations. But there have already been angry protests over what might be contained in the forthcoming austerity packages, with demonstrations on Thursday evening outside the Greek finance ministry.
How or when Greece gets full control over there own finances remains unanswered.
Message posted by Dasia on 30 April 2010 at 9:14pm - IP Logged
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I agree no Greek would abide the sale of an island to another power. A good part of the reason the country is so indebted is to pay for the military to patrol every tiny uninhabited Aegean island lest the Turks set foot there. Granted that's the historic enemy--still provocatively flying over Greek territory--but I can't see Greece selling to a friendly nation either.
Bad enough, the blow to Greek pride of having the IMF and others inspecting and directing their financial affairs.
A thoughtful commentary from the New York Times (it was first in Kathinmerini)on Greece's plight:
On Planet Greece, some civil servants get a bonus for turning up to work on time. Foresters get a bonus for working outdoors. At least they show up.
There are civil servants called ghost workers because they never go into the office, head to a second job and still claim a state salary. They can't get sacked, because a civil service post is for life. Unless the incumbent decides to retire in his or her forties, with a pension.
And the government can continue paying for the afterlife. Unmarried and divorced daughters of civil servants are entitled to collect their dead parents pensions. Another lucrative sinecure is to belong to a state committee. The government has no idea how many there are.
It has been estimated that they have 10,000 employees and cost nearly £200m a year, and that includes the committee to manage a lake that dried up 80 years ago.
Message posted by vivwells on 30 April 2010 at 10:29pm - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by Lavinia on 30�April�2010
Really good to know that I am not alone in my thinking. Thank you.
Lavinia, you so often put into words exactly what I'm thinking.
As someone who bravely demonstrated against the reactionary forces of the Junta and who clearly understands the Greek point of view, your take on this is particularly illuminating.
Imagine if our new PM, whoever he turns out to be, suggested the sale of the Isle of Wight to Germany - or any other non-British sovereign state - to help balance the books...I think there would be not a little dissent!
Message posted by frankie boy on 30 April 2010 at 10:59pm - IP Logged
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Here's the lowdown on the Nationwide Flex Account Debit Card, which comes courtesy of Martyn Lewis at: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/cheap-travel-money?dd#topcards
"The Top Debit Card The only card of note is Nationwide's Flexaccount Visa Debit card. For European spending, this beats every card out there, even pipping the specialist credit cards.
It doesn't charge a load fee in Europe, but does charge 1% worldwide. There's no charge for using ATMs (apart from the load fee mentioned above) and withdrawing cash is interest free (unless you’re overdrawn). However, to get the debit card you need Nationwide's bank account, and while it isn't bad, it's not the best buy (see the Bank Accounts guide).
Nationwide wants you use this as your main current account, yet you can sneakily avoid this by setting up a free savings account at the same time as opening the Flexaccount; its e-savings plus account can be opened with just £1. Then you can just pre–load the Flexaccount for spending before travelling abroad." --------------------
The other points not mentioned above are... 1)You get your currency at 'interbank rate', - which is the wholesale rate the banks use to buy and sell currency between themselves and consequently it's a much better rate than you would otherwise get. 2)You don't need to withdraw and carry around large amounts of cash,as you can simply withdraw money as you need it. There's loads of ATM's around the island... there's a complete list on the General Holiday Questions forum.
Message posted by Graham T-A on 30 April 2010 at 11:46pm - IP Logged
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So many answers in one string. First, how can you sell an island that someone thinks they own. It would be like selling Jersey. Someone already owns it, or bits of it. You could transfere soveighty but not sell the island. Now lets think about this, why would you want to rule an island that was losing money? I doubt you would get a fiver for the whole of Greece at the moment. I am sure that West Germany would think twice before taking on any other county after the costs of taking on east Germany as it cost them a fortune.
Jrk, nothing special about the Nationwide account other than explained above in Fankies post.
Lavinia, good to see that someone stands against their repressive governments. It does tend to be the students that start the overthrow of dictorial leaders but this may be because of their intelligence levels but also because their teachers at the uni's tend to be militant, like the Greek civil servants as for years they were on the same gravy train as in the UK, with protected pensions and almost protected jobs with little demands upon them compared to others.
Message posted by jrk on 01 May 2010 at 10:08am - IP Logged
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The modern history of Greece and its ever changing borders, and all the different strands which have gone into making up the country, and attitudes, is brilliantly explained in a book called 'Salonika, city of Ghosts' by Mark Mazower, a fascinating history of Greece's second largest city, which has only been part of Greece since 1912.
Although technically about one city the reader will learn a lot about the rest of the country's psyche (which I imagine would translate into Greek as its 'soul').
Message posted by Bill on 01 May 2010 at 11:27am - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by Lavinia on 30 April 2010
All this talk about selling off Greek islands to the Germans is beginning to unamuse me [...] The Greek psyche is very firmly entrenched in land and to suggest that whole islands could be sold off to solve the national debt would be, I believe, completely unthinkable to any Greek. They know exactly who owns each olive tree and will fiercely protect every inch of their land. [...] I, for one, will stand firmly alongside the Greeks. [...]
Well said Lavinia! Whilst I sincerely hope and pray such foolishness will never happen (as in attempts to sell any part of Greece), if it does I'll be there alongside them too.
Message posted by tully on 01 May 2010 at 11:59am - IP Logged
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I find it disappointing that the "eurozone" was supposed to be everyone under one umbrella and supporting one another through the shared use of the euro. As with most ideology, great in theory, disaterous in practice.
Greece has massive problems, so does the UK (on par with greece), but the big bullies of the Eurozone want to wash their hands of Greece, but are unable to.
All the money that was poored into Europe after WW2 to help rebuild it, had that not have happened makes you wonder what Europe would look like now.
I shall continue to visit Corfu, spend my money and hopefully retire there. It is a very special place.
Message posted by J&L on 01 May 2010 at 12:44pm - IP Logged
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On the contrary - I do not think any of the Euro partners want to wash their hands of Greece - the question is how to aid Greece without losing more money into corrupt systems and politicians and business people.
I have every sympathy for the new Greek government and its task ahead
Message posted by jrk on 01 May 2010 at 2:46pm - IP Logged
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A Greek person told me in his opinion that if the Junta was still in power the country would not be in this mess. Not sure if this view is widely? But many (right wing)students supported the junta at the time just as many (more) left wing students opposed it. Reminds me a bit of Miss Jean Brode actually.
Some UK folks vastly overspend or lose money and have to sell their cherished house to repay the out of control debt. So sometimes such action may be necessary.
Message posted by SusieM on 01 May 2010 at 3:35pm - IP Logged
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There will be no easy solution; the biggest problem will be to educate the state that its not TAKE TAKE TAKE; Like Vinny I was there during the Junta and it was a frightening experience and selling an island would not be an option. Since joining the Euro its been a very long gravy train to Brussels. The perks have been unbelievable and to try and educate a country that in order to refurbish all the grotty schools, hospitals uniiverities etc the country has to give and contribute across the board to the tax system.
All options have been discussed and I think Greece will be bailed out with a huge price to pay.The Greeks will still be paying for the Olympics until 2020 and what a catastrophe that nothing was put into place for all the stadiums after the event.
HAPPY MAY DAY EVERYONE; the weather in Corfu I gather is just lovely today and well here in the south east of the UK, clouds are gathering and a typical Bank Holiday washout is on the horizon so those of you who can get your buckets and spades out lucky you.
Message posted by Lavinia on 01 May 2010 at 4:56pm - IP Logged
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I agree Susie, Happy May Day everyone. I am off to collect wild flowers to make into the garland for the door and may the garland keep Corfu Corfiot for many, many May Days to come!!!! Sorry to tease you Susie but I might even go for a swim tomorrow.
Message posted by Lavinia on 01 May 2010 at 5:45pm - IP Logged
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Sorry jrk, only just read your question. It was (the time under the Colonels) something you really had to live with to understand. I was living in Athens with my Corfiot husband who was towards the end of his medical studies at Athens University. We all had to be extremely careful what we said and we trusted no-one apart from our very closest friends (and one of our's turned out to be an informer for the dreaded secret police). We were not allowed to listen to music which had been banned, read literature which was banned, our phones were tapped, our mail was censored, even our rubbish searched and we were under constant fear of arrest for a minor misdemeanour. Several of our friends disappeared after the Polytechnic uprising.
I remember the night Konstantinos Karamanlis returned to Athens from France after the fall of the Junta and was in Syntagma square along with tens of thousands of jubilant Greeks who felt they were "free" at last. I also attended Mikis Theodorakis' first concert at the Herodus Atticus Theatre on the Acropolis after his return from exile and the ecstatic crowd all joining in with the chorus of "Andreas" (the song Theodorakis wrote about Andreas Papandreou (our present PM's father) fleeing the secret police across the roof tops of Athens. And then he sang Eimaste dio, eimaste treis (the ultimate song of revolution) with the wonderful Maria Farantouri and Adonis Kalogiannis - the place erupted, tears pouring down everyone's cheeks as we all sang our hearts out at last. Amazing experiences which I shall never forget. Left, right, royalist, republican, communist, idealist, anti-American - they all played their part. My experiences then obviously have a great bearing on how I feel now and maybe explain why I feel so strongly. Poor Greece has suffered so much and is so intrinsically part of Europe (indeed some say the mother of Europe), she must be saved.
Message posted by Eleni k on 01 May 2010 at 6:03pm - IP Logged
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Regarding your previous post jrk, it is true that a few younger Greeks think that a junta would be a good idea. But as Lavinia points out, these people did not have any experience of the junta and possibly do not fully comprehend what it actually means.
Message posted by J&L on 01 May 2010 at 6:22pm - IP Logged
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Lavinia, thank you for that graphic reminder of how it was under the Colonels - and the joy when they were got rid of. All we could do at the time was not visit Greece - and it felt about as much help as not buying South African apples! Now we are glad to live in Greece - and eat SA apples!!!
It is important to share the truth with new generations.
Message posted by mossa on 01 May 2010 at 7:05pm - IP Logged
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Several Greek students were interviewed for BBC news and they wanted an end to bribery and corruption in Greece.
One student was told that if he didn't pay a bribe his driving test would be made more 'difficult'.
Message posted by Lavinia on 01 May 2010 at 7:41pm - IP Logged
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That is terrible and the driving instructor should be reported to the police for intimidation and corruption. But reported to whom?? That doesn't mean that Greece should have yet another dictatorship, or does it for fakalaki were rife during the time of the Junta. The world of the "fakalaki" - envelope stuffed with money - should have passed and I would suggest that people refuse to pay it. Maybe the only way to deal with this is to name and shame and get some journalists on board? That is the only way it will stop. To make the police actually do some work would be a start.
Message posted by windmill on 01 May 2010 at 10:10pm - IP Logged
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I find it disappointing that the "eurozone" was supposed to be everyone under one umbrella and supporting one another through the shared use of the euro. As with most ideology, great in theory, disaterous in practice.
Greece has massive problems, so does the UK (on par with greece), but the big bullies of the Eurozone want to wash their hands of Greece, but are unable to.
All the money that was poored into Europe after WW2 to help rebuild it, had that not have happened makes you wonder what Europe would look like now.
I shall continue to visit Corfu, spend my money and hopefully retire there. It is a very special place.
-----------------
tully,
Dear Tully. Do you really comprehend. a) who bailed Europe out after the 2nd WW 2, mostly to rebuild Germany as a bulwark against the Soviet Union? answer, USA.
2) The EU: has given billions to Spain, Eire and Greece just to name a few of the main recipients of EU money, of which, UK tax contributions have been considerable. ie: Yes, Corfu is a lovely place to go on holiday but what has that got to do with such a serious post.
Message posted by janmanessi on 01 May 2010 at 11:03pm - IP Logged
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I was in Rhodes for some time during the Junta and remember a brave bouzouki player who stationed watchers all round the square while he played Theodorakis- the atmosphere was electric.
When I came to live on Corfu I was horried by seeing pro junta graffiti on some walls, but when I asked about it I was told that there were only 10 members of the Junta party on the island- but one was obviously a dab hand with spray paint!
Whilst people may yearn for a firm hand to steer the country I am sure that noone wants to experience life under a dictatorship, whether of left or right.
Message posted by Greekwife on 05 May 2010 at 12:54pm - IP Logged
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Terrible scenes in Athens. Three people killed after a firebomb attack on a bank. This, coupled with the strikes, is bound to have an effect on the tourist industry. Last night we were planning to take my son and a friend of his to Andros after their GCSEs, stopping off at Athens on the way. Tonight we'll be looking at alternatives.
Message posted by jurjen on 05 May 2010 at 4:56pm - IP Logged
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I'll be near Athens as well in June but will keep a close eye on the news and events before actually visiting the city. I may even shorten the mainland part of the trip as I think (hope) Corfu is much safer.
Definitely bad news for those who have to cope with all the budget cuts and have to earn their money in tourism...
Message posted by Lavinia on 05 May 2010 at 5:18pm - IP Logged
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Whilst it is extremely sad, indeed a tragedy, that three people died in the fire in the bank, I really think we have to keep things in perspective. There is no civil unrest whatsoever in Corfu. As my friend and neighbour, Kostas, says, "we don't do things like that in Kerkyra". Also a very close friend of mine lives just off Patission (one of the main streets in central Athens) and says that his life has not been disrupted at all by riots or demonstrations. I remember concerned friends and family ringing me in Athens during the Junta having seen tv reports to check that I was alright and most of the time I was unaware of anything going on (although the phone calls were usually cut off halfway through).
I still think that until the people who have embezzled so much money from the Greek State are brought to justice, dissent will remain. That should be the first objective of this new Government who have inherited such a mess. But rest assured all of you looking forward to your holidays here, there is no trouble here whatsoever (apart from being marooned on the island during the general strike - but who cares about that?)
Message posted by jrk on 05 May 2010 at 5:27pm - IP Logged
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Talking about corruption or DEAD MONEY
What about when you take on a shop/business and have to pay aira for the building, is that declared anywhere? It has been going on in Greece for ever and a day and still does and nobody bats an eyelid, its just taken for granted.
Vinny, I was jealous when you wrote 'going for a swim'. I went with bucket and spade to West Whittering two weeks ago and I didnt even put my toe in the sea as knew it would be 50 below zero!
Message posted by Wynne on 05 May 2010 at 5:37pm - IP Logged
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Unfortunately the general strike argument works the other way too in that people's flights to Corfu / Greece could be cancelled or delayed with knock-on effects through the summer. There's no doubt it will have an effect on late bookings. We love Greece but we only get one main holiday a year and it has to be stress-free. Whilst things are as they are no one can guarantee that.
Message posted by Lavinia on 05 May 2010 at 6:01pm - IP Logged
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I completely agree Wynne. I cannot see the point of a general strike. The Greek people are obviously frustrated by what the financial melt-down is going to mean to them individually, but they are only damaging Greek revenue further by going on strike. I was merely trying to point out that there is no trouble on Corfu itself. I can only encourage you to take a chance on your holiday and I publically announce to everyone that if you get stuck in Corfu you are welcome to come and stay with me for nothing! (as long as there are not more than six of you that is and food and booze would be extra!)
Message posted by Viv D on 05 May 2010 at 6:53pm - IP Logged
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Terrible news from Athens, but I think it should be remembered that these rioters are not "man-in-the-street" protesters. They are the hard-line anarchists who turn out at the slightest excuse in order to create chaos.
Message posted by DavidJ on 05 May 2010 at 8:16pm - IP Logged
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Here's my view (for what its worth).
1. The combined EU and IMF bail out will go ahead.
2. Subsequently (perhaps in 12 months) Greece will default on the austerity measures and be thrown out of the Eurozone.
3. The drachma will be re-instated allowing Greece to revalue their currency.
Message posted by JohnandHilary on 05 May 2010 at 8:19pm - IP Logged
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You are a kind person, you could always ask your guests to do a bit of strimming to help you out If I was stuck here due to lack of transport I would definitely take you up on your offer, might even open a bottle of Gin to share ...lol
Best wishes ...John x
Message posted by JohnandHilary on 05 May 2010 at 8:23pm - IP Logged
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As I have no EDIT button ...my post coincided with Davidj...so I will post again rather than edit...how are you David, long time no speak, is all done and dusted with Serena, are you out here at all this season .Q's...Q's I know ...all the best ...John
Message posted by vivwells on 05 May 2010 at 8:24pm - IP Logged
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Just heard on BBC News that the Greek government will be implementing measures including a £200 per month pay cut for those earning £1500 per month and banning all planned early retirements - ouch! I'd like to know what other austerity measures there will be in order to comply with the terms of the bail-out.
It's obviously going to be a hard road for all concerned.
Message posted by km on 05 May 2010 at 8:55pm - IP Logged
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Not only are they cutting pensions and salaries the vat has gone up to 23 per cent - so we have less money in our pocket and higher prices to pay!! This is extremely unfair seeing as it was not the people who have brought this country to the brink but the politicians!!
Message posted by Dasia on 05 May 2010 at 9:33pm - IP Logged
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I'm glad to hear things are quiet in Patissia, we have friends living there too. We've been concerned for their safety since a young boy was killed by a bomb left in a brief case outside a government building near their apartment.
The numbers participating in today's demonstrations are much larger than usual. It's not just the usual suspects, the anarchists and "students," but also ordinary Greeks who are understandably angry at the reductions in their salaries and pensions and rising sales taxes. Of course, the government needs to make economies right now, and they can put these measures into practice immediately. It will take time for them to figure out how to stem the tax evasion by professionals and wealthy businessmen, requiring the overhaul of all sorts of systems. One wonders how they will tax the doctors' "fakelakia"?? The man in the street (literally!) must wonder if those measures will in fact be taken.
It is so sad to think of the three bank employees who lost their lives in such an awful way.
Message posted by Viv D on 05 May 2010 at 9:46pm - IP Logged
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And Viv, there will always be a Greek salad here waiting for you my dear!! We are all really decent people it is just a shame about the Greek politicians and their light fingers...
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Thank you Lavinia. In return my other half will get to work on your garden. He grows lovely flowers (look in my photo section) and is quite happy digging and weeding in the garden
Viv
Message posted by BruceAndMaria (Born again CTG member) on 06 May 2010 at 11:15am - IP Logged
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I agree Bruce - such a shame that innocent people going about their work become the victims of the protests.
Message posted by Ritchie on 06 May 2010 at 1:32pm - IP Logged
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Ritchie
With the very sad situation in Greece (mainland)with problems about the "National Debt" and the pictures we are getting on TV showing all the street fighting and unrest, do we know if any of this has filtered over to Corfu? Is there also any thought about possible future problems re food shortages etc. etc.?? I am concerned about how this is going to affect the holiday business on the island. Have our resident Corfiots on this site any news or thoughts on the subject?
Message posted by Thea on 06 May 2010 at 1:57pm - IP Logged
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With the current economic crisis here in Greece is anyone worried about the Greek banks? Is anyone considering putting their euros elsewhere? And where would you put them?
Something that I had not considered before now...
Message posted by Dasia on 06 May 2010 at 8:21pm - IP Logged
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I have been thinking of the three people and their families with sorrow too and am now really downcast to learn one of them was pregnant. Especially since the CBC news has reported that firefighters think they would have been able to save the them people, but the protesters prevented their getting near the building. If true, shame on them!
Message posted by barrywlynch on 06 May 2010 at 9:31pm - IP Logged
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The best thing Greece could do is get away from the euro, the bail out is a death sentence to Greek people, banks and other governments with vested interest send in whats known as economic hit men to broker a deal which will see Greek people paying back with there souls, hidden in contracts will be small print allowing wealthy out side companies to take over in major areas of the Greek way of life. I know it sounds far fetched but its true, watch Zeitgeist addendum this will give you an idea on how these people work, and how we got here to start with. not all of the movie is practical but its interesting.
Message posted by Viv D on 08 June 2010 at 9:13am - IP Logged
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