We all agree to accept Terms & Conditions when contributing to websites & forums and it is important that we so do. Without a formal structure and code of conduct, any site would quickly descend into chaos. When a number of contributors question an issue, however, is it not incumbent upon the administrators to at least consider whether or not that condition needs reviewing in order that the site may grow and adapt to changing opinions?
Steve
Message posted by bobbiesgirl (Moderator) on 19 September 2009 at 8:11pm - IP Logged
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Steve......will you elaborate further what you mean for me, I have been up all night, sitting at Corfu airport for a delayed flight, so I feel confuzzled, have you got a problem with something??
Message posted by Graham T-A on 19 September 2009 at 8:35pm - IP Logged
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Steve, if you saw the size of the fines handed out by EOT last year you would not question this. Many people paid up to 10,000 euros in this area and the website or TO is held equaly responsible. They are searching the web for properties and then checking them. For this reason this is not negotiable and is a matter of breaking the law, not just the T&Cs.
Message posted by janmanessi on 20 September 2009 at 1:18am - IP Logged
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And having seen several posts recently by people planning to rent their properties as holiday lets who appeared never to have heard of EOT let alone an EOT licence I think you are doing them a great favour in making them aware of the risks they would be running. Surely no-one can object to that?
Message posted by planetolivewood on 20 September 2009 at 11:34am - IP Logged
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planetolivewood
Agreed Jan. It seems to be very easy to fall foul of the law. Graham it is interesting to see tht the web-site is held equally responsible.
It is also interesting to read your comment about EOT searching the web for properties. It all sounds quite serious and much, much more rigourous than in years past.
I have an associate who was thinking of renting his home out. He decided against it once he was made aware of the EOT issue.
This may sound like a stupid question but does anyone know if it's okay to allow friends/family to stay in your holiday home ? Or - does it all hinge on whether you advertise the accommodation and/or charge for it ? Thanks.
Message posted by Bill on 20 September 2009 at 12:26pm - IP Logged
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We have a small cottage that we had considered renting out on an occasional basis as a holiday let. However, we decided against it as we wouldn't make sufficient from it to warrant the cost of equipping it to the satisfactory standards to obtain an EOT licence. At the time I was making enquiries I did ask about the possibility of friends and family making use of it, and the advice appeared to be that this is OK providing they are not paying a rent on it. In essence that they are purely your personal guests or visitors and are not contributing financially to any business activity.
On a similar subject though, there are numerous websites that advertise 'home/house swapping'. Where people with second properties can arrange short term exchanges with each other. I wonder, does this constitute a commercial contract, and would an EOT licence be required to do this? Has anyone else looked into this at all? Any advice would be much appreciated.
Message posted by Daniel&Sylvie on 20 September 2009 at 12:27pm - IP Logged
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I understand that websites that promote properties that have no EOT license are also held responsible.
But why are private messages subject to that condition also? I would get scared thinking EOT has access to members' private messages. Or anybody else, for that matter.
Message posted by BruceAndMaria (Born again CTG member) on 20 September 2009 at 12:57pm - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by Daniel&Sylvie on 20 September 2009
I understand that websites that promote properties that have no EOT license are also held responsible.
But why are private messages subject to that condition also? I would get scared thinking EOT has access to members' private messages. Or anybody else, for that matter.
It does say in the terms and conditions that "PM MESSAGES ARE NOT TOTALLY PRIVATE AND REMAIN LIBABLE TO PERIODIC SCRUTINY"
Someone from E O T posted a message on this site at the beginning of this year,or perhaps late last year,telling people who wanted to rent out their villas or properties that if they did not have the license to do so,they would find themselves in deep water,(my words not theirs).
I got the impression they were trawling sites like Nathans,getting as much info as they could,and if all was not above board ,they would pounce!
Message posted by Daniel&Sylvie on 20 September 2009 at 2:19pm - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by BruceAndMaria on 20 September 2009
It does say in the terms and conditions that "PM MESSAGES ARE NOT TOTALLY PRIVATE AND REMAIN LIBABLE TO PERIODIC SCRUTINY"
But is it EOT scrutinising private messages?
Otherwise there is no reason to have condition 10 apply to PM's also.
Message posted by MCH on 20 September 2009 at 2:59pm - IP Logged
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What is the problem putting your EOT number on a post, if you have not got one then it is illegal to rent the property out, so what you are saying Daniel is that the site owner and admin team should condone illegal activities in PM's? If we are are fined because EOT find that someone found there accommodation through this site will you be first in the queue to pay the fine? I doubt it.
MCH
Message posted by Graham T-A on 20 September 2009 at 7:08pm - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by Daniel&Sylvie on 20 September 2009
Quote: Originally posted by BruceAndMaria on 20 September 2009
It does say in the terms and conditions that "PM MESSAGES ARE NOT TOTALLY PRIVATE AND REMAIN LIBABLE TO PERIODIC SCRUTINY"
But is it EOT scrutinising private messages?
Otherwise there is no reason to have condition 10 apply to PM's also.
You could of course be sending your PM to someone from the EOT who was trying to catch you out and find where your illegal rental property is.
Message posted by windmill on 20 September 2009 at 8:20pm - IP Logged
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Technically it is illegal to rent properties to tourists without EOT license. However, it is questionable if listing such properties on a website is an illegal act in itself.
But even if that was the case, it would be overstated to say an owner of a forum is condoning illegal activities when members are exchanging internet links concerning rental villa's in private messages.
The topic that was removed two days ago, did not mention any particular property. In fact, there was not even mentioning of renting out property. There was also no specific property mentioned in related PM's. Therefore there was no reason whatsoever to mention EOT license numbers in the topic or the PM's.
Yet the topic was removed without notifying the author or respondees of a reason. They can only assume the subsequent topic on terms & conditions was related.
For the record, I personally do not own a rental villa and I have no interest in advertising rental villas.
I did however send PM's with links to villa owners websites, on the request of other forum members. Nothing in the terms & conditions forbids that. However, should that become proven to be an illegal activity, then I'm prepared to bear all related consequences, including those for the owner of this forum. With this commitment from my side, there should be no obstacle to reinstating the subject topic.
I strongly support having terms and conditions. Members must know what is allowed and what is not, and be held to that. However, the rules must be applied objectively, especially when a topic seems in competition with the commercial objectives of the owner of the forum.
Admins should excercise their authority carefully.
Removing topics without explanation, and blocking or removing open discussion of such (as happened yesterday) harms the forum's reputation as an open platform for the exchange of information.
I sincerely hope that won't happen to this post.
Message posted by MCH on 20 September 2009 at 10:57pm - IP Logged
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There is also rule 9
9. The advertising of any Estate Agency, Building Company or subsidiary companies or organisations is against the concept of these Forums, and is prohibited.
MCH
Message posted by elizajay (Moderator) on 20 September 2009 at 11:24pm - IP Logged
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Obviously the way this thread is going....it will run on and on.
Sometimes I do wonder if some of the Admin members who post under the generic Admin username, give any thought ot the tone of their posts? The people posting on here are adults, and would be unused to be spoken to such a manner e.g. 'you cant do that. end of story'.
Having managed many staff in a large government department for 20 odd years, I must say that if I explained procedures in that fashion there would be mass walk outs.
Sometimes a simple explanation of the legal facts rather than the very defensive retorts which seem to be springing from some ADMIN would calm the situation, rather than necessitating locked topics, which goes on to cause further dissent. (this does not generalise the admin staff, many are totally expert at their jobs and could calm any situation!!)
No disrespect meant by this post....but in my experience, the aggressive and defensive attitude used by ADMIN in this and the previous locked post only serves to cause more aggro.
Message posted by NIGEL on 20 September 2009 at 11:39pm - IP Logged
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Daniel, it is not questionable that listing properties who do not have an EOT is an illegal act. Ask a Greek solicitor who will confirm this to you. Most other forum sites are not based in Greece so do not come under Greek law but this one does.
Message posted by Agni on 29 September 2009 at 10:36am - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by artisans on 19 September 2009
We all agree to accept Terms & Conditions when contributing to websites & forums and it is important that we so do. Without a formal structure and code of conduct, any site would quickly descend into chaos. When a number of contributors question an issue, however, is it not incumbent upon the administrators to at least consider whether or not that condition needs reviewing in order that the site may grow and adapt to changing opinions?
Steve
Thanks Steve for your concern. It would appear that one or two of the posting Terms and Conditions remain unclear to some members so I am currently modifying them. I hope this will make it much clearer to members concerning the posts that cannot be permitted due to the legal implications.
Agni
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