Yasas Everyone
Just wondering has anyone used solar panels to power their property, and if so how good do they find it, and was it expensive to buy and get fitted.
Efharisto
Barry
Message posted by brian & sheila on 04 June 2006 at 1:03pm - IP Logged
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Not used it in corfu yet but have used it on our boat.It works fine with 4 110 amp leisure batteries and an inverter.Would probably help to have a wind generator as well .In corfu they are not "power hungry" like in U.K. Part of the magic is to get back to nature and live the simple life. Roll on 4 pm when we set off back "home" Yammas B & S
Message posted by Alisos on 04 June 2006 at 2:26pm - IP Logged
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I think to make installation a reasonable price, solar panels are often used for just for one purpose like heating water tanks rather than for the whole house. They usually have a back up system to revert to mains in case there are any problems although you can get single systems.
A lot of the hotels used to use them in Kef with few problems.
I've never known anyone use the wind generators but I'd love to hear from anyone that's got one.
Message posted by John and Hilary on 04 June 2006 at 8:56pm - IP Logged
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We spoke with a heating engineer recently out on Corfu . I wanted to power our house with solar panels .
My idea was to have 2 x panels with 250 litre drums to power hot water all year and have a three way valve for underfloor heating in the winter . The system I had in mind would be backed up by electric immersion or oil fired boiler should there not be enough sun during the winter months .
In short we would have free hot water all summer and during the winter the underfloor heating would be on constantly and any hot water we needed would come from the boiler .
I was shot down in flames for a couple of reasons:
1/ Underfloor heating has the potential to leak ? thus meaning that the floor tiles would need to come up to sort out
2/ Solar panels have to be replaced every 2-3 years as they wear out quickly
3/ The sun in winter would not be strong enough to give us 20% of our needs and we would be reliant on the boiler anyway .
In addition to our discussions I asked about Combi boilers and were told that the heat exchange capillaries corrode/ clog up very fast due to the high limescale content of the water .
So.........We are having conventional central heating [ altho it was conceded that we could choose some nice looking radiators !! ]
And we are having the same boiler [ oil fired ] to give us our hot water year round .
I know that the technology exists for me to have my way , but if you realise that building has only taken off bigstyle over the last decade over there and the Greek engineers are very loathe to accept new technology......then you go with the flow [ excuse the pun ]
Regards......J&H
Message posted by Ray and Gisela on 05 June 2006 at 9:14am - IP Logged
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(3) You do not need the sun as it is solar energy thay work on.
We hope to have solar heating as well , we will have a back boiler in our fire and electric emershion heater , our plumer over heir is having it in his new house and says that it will larst a life time.
Message posted by IrishBarry on 05 June 2006 at 5:43pm - IP Logged
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Efharisto John & Hillary
That pretty much answers my question, sounds more trouble than it is worth, one thing I hate is spending a lot of good money on something that is not reliable.So you were told to revert to the oil heating.
Thanks for the reply
Barry
Message posted by IrishBarry on 05 June 2006 at 5:47pm - IP Logged
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Hi Raymond
Interesting the different views, do let me know how you get on with your solar power, as I thought it was a lot more reliable than mentioned above, but was not sure.
Best regards
Barry
Message posted by IrishBarry on 05 June 2006 at 7:14pm - IP Logged
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Hi Stuart
I Know people in Ireland, Have been using them lately because they get a government grant to install them, but they are only starting to use them so it is to early for me to say whether they are a sucess or not
Best regards
Barry
Message posted by Alisos on 05 June 2006 at 7:21pm - IP Logged
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Sorry Barry that was me not Stuart. But he keeps forgetting to log off when he's finished!! I deleted the post in his name because he's got too many posts already
Anyway as I said in over 8 years I never knew anyone who had to replace them or had any serious trouble.
Message posted by nuffstrong on 05 June 2006 at 7:28pm - IP Logged
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I have friends at the Pantokrator Hotel in Barbati who have been using solar panels for hot water for many years, I will email them and find out if and when they wear out.
Steve
Message posted by Susanna on 05 June 2006 at 8:53pm - IP Logged
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Lots of people are putting in underfloor heating now in Corfu. It seems to be the trend of the moment. Solar panels can also be fitted flush with the roof tiles, which wasn't possible a few years ago. It has always amazed me that more effort isn't made to harness the energy the sun gives - and wind, too.
Susanna
Message posted by nuffstrong on 05 June 2006 at 9:59pm - IP Logged
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Here in the UK it seems that th ODPM (Office of Deputy Prime Minister) has made it impossible for 82% of solar panels to be installed legally. Aparently the problem centres upon a 'supplementary information' phrase requires water entering a conventional solar panel to be cold. The remaining 18% have been dealt with by Defra who say they actually use 75kWh per year and produce none when in fact outside experts have proved that they produce 1000kWh per year. Apparently grants have been stopped until the matter is resolved.Looks like we might be pushed into nuclear energy after all, of course it's not a conspiracy.
Steve
Message posted by trisa on 05 June 2006 at 11:07pm - IP Logged
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We are about to have a gas fired boiler installed for hot water and central heating. Has anyone had any experience of that? We have had to fight to get it as our architect said that if everyone had it it would be like having a bomb in every house! Didn't like to tell her that we had gas central heating in the UK for over 25 years and it didn't explode once!
Message posted by John and Hilary on 05 June 2006 at 11:33pm - IP Logged
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I am fast becoming aware that we are being fobbed off by our ' experts ' on Corfu . Maybe they don't understand the technology or maybe they have the cost in their minds after their quotes to us .
Either way , we will be pushing for what we want . We will be living out there on a pension and all outgoings per annum have to be considered . We are prepared to pay up front for the technology if it saves us on our annual bills in the future .
Thanks to all for your advice...........going against the flow now !!
Regards.....J&H
Message posted by IrishBarry on 06 June 2006 at 12:22am - IP Logged
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Efharisto Everyone
Its amazing all the different points of view on solar power, I am still not convinced it is worth installing but has anyone actually got a quote for fitting it.
Regards Barry
Message posted by Alisos on 06 June 2006 at 5:08pm - IP Logged
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We are about to have a gas fired boiler installed for hot water and central heating. Has anyone had any experience of that? We have had to fight to get it as our architect said that if everyone had it it would be like having a bomb in every house! Didn't like to tell her that we had gas central heating in the UK for over 25 years and it didn't explode once!
It might just be a cultural thing. Most of my greek friends were petrified of anything gas. Apart from their petro gazi gas rings in the kitchen. We were constantly being warned of the dangers of gas when we bought a calor gas heater. They used to cross themselves several times and tell us they were going to pray for our reckless souls once we'd blown ourselves up.
I remember someone explaining that when gas bottles were first introduced to Greece either the gas was a bit unstable (is that possible??) or the bottles were poorly manufactured. I can't remember which now but it resulted in a lot of houses being blown up. It was still quite a regular occurance when I was living there, not necessarily because of the quality of the gas but more due to carelessness.
Message posted by Dave and Kerry on 06 June 2006 at 5:09pm - IP Logged
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Trisa..how big a tank are you having put in to store the gas for your heating? as i understand that gas is not mains supply on corfu?
John and Hilary...is it heavy oil or light that you are going to use? light being the Red diesel that it seems many use on corfu.
at the end of the day you can listen to advice and to those that have certain types of heating already fitted but at the end of the day its you not the engineers who will live in the house!!
Message posted by John and Hilary on 07 June 2006 at 8:22am - IP Logged
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An interesting point , truth is I don't know what type of oil we are going to be using .
I will look further into it , reason being is that in the UK the marine diesel is the red stuff and is cheap , we use the proper diesel in the marina at Corfu , could it be that we could be using the red stuff also ???? I wonder !!
Regards.......J&H
Message posted by Mrs D on 07 June 2006 at 11:42am - IP Logged
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Many years ago before I had children I lived on a narrowboat. My cooking and hot water used LPG from gas bottles which were kept in a gas locker at the front of my boat.
One day I came home from work to be told that another boat owner in the yard hard heard a hissing sound coming from my boat and on investigation found that it was from my gas bottle. It had been a very hot day and the extreme temperatures had expanded the metal jubilee clip around gas pipe connection. The pipe had come off with the gas pressure as the gas bottle was still turned on. The hissing was all the gas escaping. I dread to think what would have happened if someone had been close by with a cigarette.
I would still use gas bottles in Corfu tho' but I would make sure they were kept in a very cool place and always turned off when not in constant use.
Message posted by Ray and Gisela on 07 June 2006 at 5:59pm - IP Logged
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Hi Barry still a long way of befour we start to build. But when we start it will be sola for the heating with a back up. But not OIL or GAS that will NEVER GO DOWN IN PRICE ! And Think of the space, and the reataining wall that you must build . I think that the Sola Rays will all ways be their.
As long as the fog from Gas and Oil berners do not block them out.
Message posted by IrishBarry on 07 June 2006 at 7:30pm - IP Logged
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Hi Mrs D
That is a very good point, I have seen a few accidents with gas over the years and it is very important to get in the habit of turning it off when not been used.
Regards Barry
Message posted by IrishBarry on 07 June 2006 at 7:34pm - IP Logged
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Hi Raymond
Yes I to would favour solar power but it is unfortunate that you can not use just solar and no back up, maybe in a few years it will get better.
Regards Barry
Message posted by John and Hilary on 08 June 2006 at 10:57pm - IP Logged
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I have spoken to our civil engineer and explained what we want . I had the idea from day 1 and was pursuaded to change my mind whilst out on Corfu in May .
We want 2 x solar panels with 250 litre capacity to give us our hot water all summer and most of the winter . In winter we will have underfloor heating and leave it on constantly..........the only expense we will have is the electricity to operate the pump/s to deliver the hot water.
This system will be backed up on shortfall by a diesel boiler for water and heating........a 3 way valve operation will be neccessary .
Can anyone find fault with what we are requesting ?
Am I being unreasonable ???
Best wishes .........J&H
Message posted by IrishBarry on 08 June 2006 at 11:38pm - IP Logged
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J & H, I think you will find you're part of a growing trend, fuel is not just expensive it's ruining the planet. As long as you depend upon someone supplying a commodity the forces of supply & demand will operate.Years ago when the Mr Milkman brought the pint of milk it cost 1 shilling (5p) now it's 8 shillings (40p)plus. The sun doesn't cost anymore now than it did then so stick with Mr Sun Incorporated (totally Unlimited).Judging by some of the winds I've experienced on Corfu Mother Nature can offer loads of energy from the wind too, just harness it.
Steve
Message posted by John and Hilary on 09 June 2006 at 10:53am - IP Logged
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The cost of the heating with conventional methods was included in the overall price of the house build contract , so I don't know what that cost is .
When I was over in February I found a couple of retailers selling solar panels . For 1 x panel with a 250 litre capacity the cost was approx € 800 .The installation pipework and any valves were not included but should not come in above € 1,000 per panel .
I think the outlay for 2 x panels and installation will soon be clawed back over a couple of years .
Regards......J&H
Steve ,
I will make the wind generation side of things my little project when we get out there . It will give me something to do .
Message posted by Alisos on 09 June 2006 at 11:00am - IP Logged
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If you think that in the summer most of your electric is spent on heating water you've got to make your money back quite soon.
The prices for the panels you saw seem pretty cheap. I'm pretty sure they were more than double that a few years ago so they're obviously being used more.
Gives me hope for my plans
Message posted by Ray and Gisela on 09 June 2006 at 6:22pm - IP Logged
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thanks that is what I will hear it must work, and buy the time we get round to putting it in it must get better and as i sed the heating is their all year round.
Living in Germany it is hard to think thay will win the cup . Lets leave it to the end England V Germany but as England as winners Please .
Message posted by nuffstrong on 10 June 2006 at 10:55am - IP Logged
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J & H, I wrote to the Hotel Pantokrator in Barbati and asked how often their solar panels had to be replaced if at all, this is the reply I got,
'Regarding solar panels, I have to be honest, we got rid of them because they were too tempermental. The hot water ran out frequently and when the sun didn't shine the panels didn't heat up adequately. Maybe your friend has found better quality panels but we weren't too impressed.'
If you want talk to Elaine at the Pantokrator I'll give you her number.
Steve
Message posted by John and Hilary on 10 June 2006 at 11:14am - IP Logged
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I think though that trying to heat enough water for a hotel and the guests is going to be tempramental . People wanting water at different times , therefore panels not heating up quickly enough after one lot has finished etc. etc .
We accept that on cloudy days we will have little or no heat from the sun , hence the need for a backup boiler .
Anyway , I intend doing all my self cleansing in the sea ...lol
Regards.......J&H
Message posted by nuffstrong on 10 June 2006 at 11:35am - IP Logged
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Hi John, You're welcome. I have to say that when I've stayed there I've never had a problem with hot water. I believe there's a need to reset the angle of reflection to maximise these solar panels. It's a hot subject (excuse the pun) in the States and there's even talk about paying people to install and regularly adjust these panels because the amount of energy returned to their national grid would outweigh the costs, consider the benefits if every house had solar panels on the roof.
Steve
Message posted by Dave and Kerry on 10 June 2006 at 1:01pm - IP Logged
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nuffstrong...maybe one reason the uk is not and has never pushed Solar panels is because the profits for the over charging electricity companies would go down and it would also hit the taxes the government rake in from said companies!!!
they all talk a good Green world but do little to help it along.
Message posted by John and Hilary on 10 June 2006 at 2:09pm - IP Logged
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Dave & Kerry, I hope you're not suggesting that taxes and profits outweigh saving the planet ?? J & H That suggestion re remote controlled solar panels may be a bit tongue in cheek but I'll bet you several cases of Metaxa someone is on with it right now, however, I can design a simple remote controlled motor to suit if you fancy marketing it when you move over.
Steve
Message posted by IrishBarry on 10 June 2006 at 7:53pm - IP Logged
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To John & Hillary
I think you will have your money back in a couple of years if you definitely go solar, as some of the replies mention the price of oil and gas is certainly not going to go down.
Best of Luck
Barry
Message posted by Susanna on 10 June 2006 at 9:32pm - IP Logged
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Regarding the different sorts of diesel fuel available - the government provides cheaper (poorer quality) fuel for central heating purposes between mid October and mid April, approximately. You have to remember to fill up your tanks while this is available. During the rest of the year you can only get the more expensive stuff.
Susanna
Message posted by John and Hilary on 11 June 2006 at 1:51am - IP Logged
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Thanks for your thoughts , and yes I think you are right .
Hi Susanna ,
Interesting info re: cut price fuel during the winter , but we hope to be ' green ' and at little cost . Solar and wind eventually . Must get more of those giganti beans.....lol
Regards.....J&H
Message posted by rosy on 11 June 2006 at 11:19pm - IP Logged
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Just a thought on calor gas, I was amazed at the reception on calor gas in Corfu, We were looking for a gas cooker and the availability was very limited and not stylish, the young lady who was in the shop told us that the people in Corfu will not buy the gas cookers because "their houses will go boom" and they are very afraid, which astounded me as I have been living in Cyprus for sometime, who also do not have mains gas and everone uses calor gas very safely, the cannisters are very cheap, you can see exactly what you are spending and guage how long it will last through the winter for cooking and heating. I just find it hard to believe how different the attitude is from Cyprus and Corfu when they are both Greek countries.
I also found it difficult to believe how noone seems to be using the water dispensers in their own homes in corfu when all over Cyprus they are selling the coolers which hold 19 litres of water for a couple of pounds when you can lug packs of water every time you go shopping!!
I a certainly not running the Corfoits down, but surely they can't be so far behind Cyprus.
Message posted by becky on 12 June 2006 at 12:33am - IP Logged
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Rosy, I suppose a lot of the differences in attitude is due to the amount of foreign influence Cyprus has had in recent years, with the army presence. Mind you I've never known any Greeks drink bottled water at home, in Kef they just filled empty coke bottles from the tap and put them in the fridge.
Thanks for that link Becky, I might have to use my paypal account again! We were looking some smaller wind generators but can't remember the price. I think they use even smaller one on boats sometimes too. I really would like it if we weren't reliant on just mains electric for power when we move over. Apart from supply difficulties in the future I can't remember the amount of times the electric was cut because of the weather, maintenance or strikes.
Message posted by Stuart on 12 June 2006 at 11:33am - IP Logged
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As has already been mentioned, another driver for installing alternative heating methods is the rising cost of central heating oil.
Last year, I put together a list of average living costs that included the cost of heating oil. However, when I updated it again earlier this year, I got a few comments back that said bills for heating oil had risen sharply over the winter.
I suppose that this means any costs associated with installing solar/wind energy will pay for themselves even quicker!!
Stuart
Message posted by becky on 13 June 2006 at 10:30am - IP Logged
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Hi John spoke last week to the guy who builds the Timber houses regarding the Solar panels...one of the things he mentioned was that one problem can come from the Water deposits which Furr up inside the panels! which is probably why you were told the panels would need changing after 3 years, however there are salts and stuff that can be added to reduce the problem.
Maybe one idea wold be to wait untill you can fill the sterna with rain water and then use that for the Solar system???
Dave.
Message posted by John and Hilary on 20 June 2006 at 1:22pm - IP Logged
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John & Hillary
Filling the solar panels with rainwater is what they are doing in Ireland in order to stop them gathering deposits on the inside, if you do not do this they will end up looking like the element from your washing machine (you know the add on the tele for calgon).This will definitely extend there lifespan and increase there output.
Best wishes
Barry
Message posted by John and Hilary on 20 June 2006 at 8:16pm - IP Logged
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I have had a look at the Dimas site , they have an office in Corfu judging by the office location map .
I have sent them an email describing our visions of the system we want , I'll keep you posted [ excuse the pun ] when we have an answer .
Hi Barry ,
Ref : rainwater and deposit build up , it does make sense , on the other hand can we inspect our rainwater and find out what part of the planet it has come from ??....perhaps we could invest in a giant Britta filter ...
Regards.....J&H
Message posted by Stuart on 20 June 2006 at 8:29pm - IP Logged
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I know that you only need to look at the inside of an electric kettle to see how much of a problem mineral deposit build up can on the island.
However, I used to work as a plumber's mate on Kefalonia in the winter and I don't recall anyone ever saying that this was a problem with normal hot water and/or central heating pipes, so I wonder why it would affect the pipes for the solar setup?
Maybe your Dimas contact might be able to explain.
Stuart
Message posted by John and Hilary on 20 June 2006 at 8:55pm - IP Logged
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It seems that Corfus fresh water seems more mineral laden than other parts of Greece [ I have no idea why , nor the time to investigate ] it is a fact and has to be overcome in some way with the use of appliances that use elements and small bore pipework .
I wonder if the Olive trees play a part in adding something to the rainwater as it soaks through the soil and layers of rock.........we have afterall ' self marinading sardines ' from the coastal waters ..
I was dissuaded from the Combi boiler idea for that very reason by Thassos [ our civil engineers ] heating engineer . We have installed a 4 cubic metre sterna with electric pump under one of our patios and I am determined to put it to good use and am also determined to have my way with the solar system .
Regards......J&H
Message posted by Stuart on 20 June 2006 at 9:06pm - IP Logged
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Like Corfu, Kefalonia also has quite a high mineral content in the water supply and we regularly had to de-scale the kettle. We also learnt our lesson the hard way with our first iron over there because we filled it with tap water and it quickly furred up and started spitting out little bits over our nice white work shirts!!!
We did have medium-sized hot water tanks (thermosyphonos) for the kitchen and bathroom and these had elements inside - but they didn't seem to attract the same problems. Not sure why!?
Stuart
Message posted by nuffstrong on 20 June 2006 at 9:36pm - IP Logged
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Hello folks, no I don't sell solar heating panels but I am interested in saving hard earned money and I know solar power is going to play a vital part in reducing our dependence upon oil in the next decade. Interesting section of the website showing the incorrect mounting of panels and the incorrect connection of water pipes which they claim is a common mistake.I think these people know what they're talking about. John, I'd be really interested in a breakdown of the costs involved and the savings made when you get your quotation if possible.
Steve
Message posted by John and Hilary on 21 June 2006 at 12:04am - IP Logged
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Of course I will keep you informed . Nice to have some positive comments at last !! and starts a post with a greeting like Hi or Hello [ less condescending ] .........I still think self marinading sardines was a good joke though !!
Regards...........J&H
Message posted by Dave and Kerry on 21 June 2006 at 12:27am - IP Logged
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My Stepdad is a heating engineer currently looking at solar power. Some papers he had said that a system in england can provide up to 65% of your hot water, just think what the figures would be in Corfu. Advertised on NET TV channel in corfu is a solar powered hotwater system for €580, not sure of the size though.
Message posted by John and Hilary on 24 June 2006 at 8:48pm - IP Logged
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Hi John, now that's interesting. I subscribe to many 'green' websites connected with electric cars,solar, wind,etc and time and again their websites either disappear or become inactive. Question, if you owned one of the most profitable businesses in Greece how much would you pay to prevent the rug being pulled from under your corporate feet? Just pick them off one at a time. Conspiracy, never.
Steve
Message posted by nuffstrong on 26 June 2006 at 12:15pm - IP Logged
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John, I rang Dimas this morning 00302751029110. The man who answered the phone spoke excellent English so I asked him if he would supply a solar powered hot water heating system for a property in Corfu, he said 'of course', and proceeded to give me his email address.I will send an enquiry from here and follow it up but maybe you should give them a ring about your email John and make sure they've got it.
Steve
Message posted by John and Hilary on 26 June 2006 at 1:21pm - IP Logged
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I did ring , but Dimas Anastacios was out of the office and the receptionist did not speak English enough to give me his email .......Have you got it handy by any chance ?
Thanks in anticipation...........John
Message posted by helga on 28 June 2006 at 11:13am - IP Logged
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A good resource for renewable energy would by Dan Chiras book: The passive Solar House. It tells you all ins and outs on how to save on energy and shows you what are good solarpanels and how to get the most out of them.
Once you read the book, you will know all.
Message posted by nuffstrong on 28 June 2006 at 12:16pm - IP Logged
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You are a lot further on than us , we are gust starting out having gust got a small peice of land . hope you will give us all a reaport as how the Sola heating works out and the cost. Nice house and outlook all the best to you both.
Message posted by John and Hilary on 29 June 2006 at 7:40am - IP Logged
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Hot off the press , altho cooled down after the wait for a reply .
Dimas has replied to my email and unfortunately ' cannot offer me a turnkey solution ' for my needs . All I want to do is run heating and water off solar panels and have a backup oil fired boiler . I can buy a ticket to go to the moon if I want [ or could afford ] !!!!!!!!!!!!
In their defence they have given me another company details www.sieline.gr
So , I start all over again .
Keep you posted.....Regards....J&H
Message posted by nuffstrong on 02 July 2006 at 9:30pm - IP Logged
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Hi John, As a matter of interst which bit are they unable to do. I take it that they can provide solar panels to heat just the domestic hot water since that's what the website says, is it a capacity problem?
Steve
Message posted by John and Hilary on 02 July 2006 at 11:07pm - IP Logged
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As with all things Greek , no explanation was given !!! If you give me your email address I will forward you their response .
I think the Greeks expect you to be mind readers and sit all day in front of a crystal ball It is only then , when we ask direct questions that they become arsy.......
I think the whole Greek business agenda has ' Pigeon holes ' .....They do what they do and nothing else , once they have made enough to live on for the forseeable future they ' shut down ' ..........There are entrepaneurs on the island that are making good money , unfortunately they are the ones that constitute the 00.1% ...........so we work our whatsits off to get info and maybe get something done !!!!
Regards.....John
Message posted by Dave and Kerry on 03 July 2006 at 12:02am - IP Logged
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John...have you tried any UK firms that supply Solar stuff?? maybe they can help out with the info and possibly even supply you with your needs...all you would need then is someone to install it for you.
not that easy i know from speaking to you but must be worth a try?
Dave
Message posted by Homesick on 03 July 2006 at 11:26am - IP Logged
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Worcester/Bosch are doing couses at there head office in the UK on Solar power, which is basically what you want, which i beleive is solar providing the majority and backed up by the combi boilers.
The information on the Worcester/Bosch site looks fairly straightforward and it might be something a decent plumber could install for you. The plumber I worked with installed a couple of solar systems for hot water (not water + heating). The house owner ordered the equipment and then we turned up and fitted it.
We were fitting them onto existing houses, so running the internal pipework from the roof to the bathrom was the longest (and messiest) part of the job - of course, as you are installing your system during your build, it won't be such a problem for you. Then, once the pipework was in place, it was simply a matter of siting the panels and connecting them up to the tanks.
These were pretty standard affairs - couple of large panels with a tank that sat on a flat roof and fed into a large boiler tank that was in the bathroom. The boiler had an electric backup for days when the solar system needed some help. I have to say I never worked on a system that fitted on top of tiles on a sloping roof and I should imagine the fitting process is quite a bit more complicated.
If you take the details out next time you're over there, maybe one of your contacts might know of a plumber who could do the job.
Stuart
Message posted by becky on 03 July 2006 at 11:53pm - IP Logged
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John, looks like you may be on the inside track now.There will undoubtably be a watertight (pardon the pun) maintainance contract which will be hellish expensive and invalidated by any outside tinkering. I personally would sacrifice that after a year or so if a capable engineer could convince me that replacement/substitute parts were available from the spurious sources in Greece or elsewhere for that matter and could be easily fitted, otherwise you get caught up in the 'General Motors' style trap, ie nobody else makes these parts, you need special tools to work on this system, and it's a zillion euros per hour by the way, just a thought from a natural sceptic. Please keep us informed John.
Steve
Message posted by Dave and Kerry on 10 July 2006 at 12:48pm - IP Logged
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Hi gust herd what a pickup van cost loaded with olive wood cost 80 € and thay say that their is not a lot of wood for that price , and you would nead at least two for the cold mounths.
Message posted by becky on 01 August 2006 at 8:59pm - IP Logged
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As this thread has gone quiet, I thought it was time to open it up again...
We are currently considering the heating options for our house in Ano Korakiana. Like J&H we would really like to harness the energy of the sun, and install a 'solar thermal' system for our heater heating needs. Looking at the 'state of the art' that is now available, it is an 'evacuated tube' solar panels we would prefer. This website has some great info http://www.navitron.org.uk/ on many alternative energy set-ups.
Alternatively, we would be interested in a wood-fired 'stove' with a back boiler, as others have suggested. To this end, and backed up with the great thermal mass of traditional stone houses, we have been thinking about what is known as 'masonry heating' - see http://www.grownupgreen.org.uk/library/?id=765 for further info.
If anyone wants to add to this, or give me their thoughts, I'd be interested to hear them.
Becky
Message posted by JeremyS on 01 August 2006 at 9:13pm - IP Logged
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Hi Becky, I'm with you on Evacuated tube systems, we are also looking at heat recovery systems as we think they might be a good way to go in a damp climate Here's a link :-http://www.villavent.co.uk/heat-recovery-ventilators.htm, need to see if we can drive it with wind power now..Jeremy
Message posted by becky on 01 August 2006 at 9:25pm - IP Logged
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Thanks, Jeremy - is that the system Dick Strawbridge used in 'Its not easy being green'? If it is, I think it would be very difficult to retrofit in an old Corfiot house!
Becky
Message posted by JeremyS on 01 August 2006 at 9:39pm - IP Logged
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Becky - I have to confess not being familiar with dick's book, the link I sent you is not actually the manufacturer I prefer but just the quickest link I could find.
The system I like is not bad for retrofit, as the Internal pipes would only show on upstairs floors (Hide behind Wardrobe?) do need loft space though.
Our thinking is that you could get away with some ground floor underfloor from solar, and with a woodburner on ground floor, a heat recovery system would move it all about..
For an old building you could think about Dry lining with Tri iso 9000 in the space.
Jeremy
Message posted by Stuart on 01 August 2006 at 9:44pm - IP Logged
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An update from a very weary tree dweller !!...Green peace eat your heart out .
I know that I am being single minded in my wishes and do not really want to start investigating all the alternative means of energy.....I just want a simple , sensible , workable solution that does not cost the earth [ excuse the greenpeace pun ]and will be cost effective when living on a pension and a meagre savings .
I have a result..........our build cost originally included underfloor heating and hot water provided by an oil boiler . That is now to become a back up system . We are installing 2 x 250 litre solar panels with a loop inside the water cylinder to heat hot water all year round..........if , and I say if , there is not enough hot water produced by the panels in the winter to power the heating then we will put our hands in our pockets and fire up the boiler to power the heating [ which will be on 24/7 anyway with the solar panels ]
We are having marble floors throughout , so they will act as storage heaters anyway , if it gets too hot we will open the windows and doors to let the heat out ...
Cost of panels and installation about € 3,000.......sounds OK to me for the rest of our happy lives
Regards.....J&H
Message posted by becky on 01 August 2006 at 11:25pm - IP Logged
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John and Hilary...its good to hear that you have positive news on the heating front and that in the end you were listened to and that you got what You wanted out of it!
I do remember you telling me you would get your way lol......
Dave.
Message posted by jandb on 18 August 2006 at 8:12pm - IP Logged
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Having read through most of the previous 10 pages on the subject of gas and solar heating I would like to clarify a few points.
1. There are reliable and good quality solar hot water systems that supply 70% of hot water needs in the UK market with a much cooler climate than Greece.It is simply a case of finding the right equipment(basically the German stuff)
2. LPG or "bottled" gas is as dangerous as the idiot that works on it,I have worked with LPG for the last 25 years and am still waiting to kill my first customer !! There are devices on the market that detect rapid pressure loss and shut down the gas supply immediately,for example if a pipe was to be fractured,these units are relatively cheap. All LPG work should be tested for soundness prior to use,this will determine an escape of gas is present initially.
3. There is a system called GROUND SOURCE HEAT PUMPS which utilise the heat within the ground,this is then fed through a condensor which basically increases the temperature and this heat is then fed to the hot water suuply or underground heating circuit.
4. Underfloor heating circuits are continuous coils of pipe that start and finish above ground,there are no joints ??? except on the above ground manifolds.
5. We have a saying in the industry "Bull baffles brains,and I suspect that this may be the case in a lot of the advice given about systems that wont work. I witness a lot of cases where change is not easily accepted within this Industry,but rest assured renewable.
There are also different variants of systems that now incorporate a condensor unit (outdoor air con unit) to heat and cool a property using ducted pipework (neat and concealed for that minimalist look).
Amptec make an Electric boiler that can be used with a mains pressure cylinder,a secondary coil can be used then to facilitate a solar water system. The bigger the cylinder the more free hot water you get.
Bowing out here now,starting to sound like an anorak.
In Corfu for 3 months Sept to Dec,any advice will cost you a single Mythos
Site visits two mythos
Regards
JandB
Message posted by John and Hilary on 18 August 2006 at 10:47pm - IP Logged
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As J&H states, this thread is primarily about the possible/practical use of solar heating on Corfu.
I have a BSc(Hons) in Environmental Technology, so am well versed in the theoretical applications of alternative technologies, but want to know how widespread or easy these can be adapted to use in the conditions that are prevalent on Corfu.
Just wrapping my beige cardigan around myself...
Becky
Message posted by John and Hilary on 18 August 2006 at 11:16pm - IP Logged
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Unless I get a helping hand I am going to withold the evidence ...lol....J&H
Seriously , even Makis our engineer is having trouble in getting the right answers from suppliers on the mainland..........We have the template for the hot water side but the heating side is causing trepidation within the industry .
I have told Makis not to waste anymore of his time and that we will look further when we are out there ourselves . We are just putting enough pipework in the right places to save upheaval should we get a result .
Message posted by JeremyS on 19 August 2006 at 5:39pm - IP Logged
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The water system is a sealed system, In that the fluid from the solar collector passes through an "element" that heats the water in the tank, the control system keeps the circulation going as long it is providing positive imput.?
All you need to do is exactly the same for the heating system except instead of a cold feed it would be a return flow.
Somewhere in the flow/return there would be an alternatve supply of heat (Boiler)When the temperature of the circulation water drops below that required the boiler turns on the boiler.
Now you have two choices - continue to flow through the "Storage/transfer" tank, or using motorised valves, bypass the tank when the boiler is running - which is switched of/on by the temperature of the stored water.
The problem seems to be working out what temperature you need the water at to be able to heat, and can we get a solar system up to that.
I am sure that if the system was underfloor the mass of the floor would minimise losses in the system and therfor reduce the required flow temperature.
Why are you being told you can't do this or why it won't work?
jeremy
Message posted by John and Hilary on 19 August 2006 at 6:18pm - IP Logged
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Problem we have is the calculation as to how much surface area we need on the panel / panels and how much water we need in the heating loop for maximum efficiency . Also what temperature is needed for the heating .
To install the equipment only to find that it is inefficient will be a waste of time and money . I am willing to ' gamble ' , but Makis is not !!
So we await the experts responses........and wait ....and wait ...
Regards..John
Message posted by JeremyS on 19 August 2006 at 6:24pm - IP Logged
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Thought that might be the case, I can do the calcs for you - I am assuming you have talked to http://www.thermomax.com/ since their round the coner from you?
Jeremy
Message posted by Ray and Gisela on 19 August 2006 at 7:30pm - IP Logged
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Thanks John Please keep up with the gooood work Im schour that we will all benefit from the nolage that you will pass on to us . JeremyS allso seams to be on the ball .
And remember that if it is werth having it is werth waiting for : ie Roof sola heating . Never give up your dream Best reagards Ray
Message posted by John and Hilary on 19 August 2006 at 7:52pm - IP Logged
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Thanks Raymond.......indeed Jeremy is on the ball , we are sending him our info and maybe after consultation with our engineer we may have a workable solution .
Then we can all benefit
Regards..J&H
Message posted by JeremyS on 21 August 2006 at 7:29pm - IP Logged
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Thanks Jeremy - I've already name-checked Navitron to J&H; they truly are the donkey's forelocks for wind technology.
I've been trying to get wind/day stats for Corfu to calculate possible yields, but the only data I've found are on yachting pages...looks quite positive, though!
Becky
Message posted by JeremyS on 21 August 2006 at 8:21pm - IP Logged
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Thanks becky, I had picked up you post to john, this post was to see if anyone picked up that we might have got a solution to the solar thing (He said smugly)
Jeremy
Message posted by John and Hilary on 21 August 2006 at 8:26pm - IP Logged
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I am happy enough to have found one solution in the long list of ' to do's '
I am too old to be able to recover the cost of all this alternative energy
Leave me something to do in the garden shed whils't H suns herself
Jeremy , keep shtum until we have a result ....then I will sing the praises.lol
John
Message posted by seaangler (Chat Room Administrator) on 21 August 2006 at 8:47pm - IP Logged
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seaangler
...A John..... Just thinking again as i do..... How about to keep you amused to save on power..... A tamdom and hook up a jenny from the chaine drive thus the pair of you can generate enough power beween you to be stored in batterys.....Thus keeping you fit at the same time..... You can have the frount seat and Hilary can sit behind you reading her book..Problem solved..Two birds with one stone.....lol...chris
P.S How about trying army suplus stores for powerfull Generators..
Message posted by John and Hilary on 21 August 2006 at 9:11pm - IP Logged
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Good news , we have a solution and it is available on Corfu by a UK manufacturer .
The solution can accommodate any form of backup heating for the water that is needed for the hot water storage tank . We have a solar panel inlet , an underfloor heating flow and return , a domestic hotwater outlet , a backup heating source flow and return , an expansion tank and a cold water inlet ...........All in one unit ..........
Details will follow once our intrepid scout has visited Corfu this next week and confirmed acceptance of the ' Fate accomplis ' by our engineer .
Regards..........J&H
Message posted by JeremyS on 24 August 2006 at 9:16pm - IP Logged
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Divide the group into two halves. Sing the song through once. Keep one group singing "oompah" and start the second group singing "ging gang goolee. When the second group comes to "hayla" the entire group sings together. Then switch parts. At the last shally wally,stop at Oom. (cut off cold)
Ging gang goolee, goolee, goolee, goolee, watcha, Ging gang goo, ging gang goo. Ging gang goolee, goolee, goolee, goolee, watcha, Ging gang goo, ging gang goo. Ohh, hayla, oh hayla shayla, Hayla shayla, shayla,
When are we gowing to get the Good news that the Roof is on no point in having sola panels and no wheir to put them . I am werking in England next week and would love to see a photo of the house when I get back . and I think that you would be Happy as well .
But if not you no the saying , if it is werth having its werth waiting for so till the good news all the best Ray .
Message posted by John and Hilary on 26 August 2006 at 8:24pm - IP Logged
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I too am waiting for the proof that the roof is on !! Thanks for your good wishes.
Where abouts are you working in the UK ?
I am determined not to have the panels on the roof as I think they spoil the appearance of the house . I will put them on our land somewhere out of sight . We have built on a 45 degree slope so we will have a good gravity flow if we put them above the house .
Regards.......J&H
Message posted by Ray and Gisela on 26 August 2006 at 9:33pm - IP Logged
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Thats a good ideir wish we could do the same but I think that we will have to littel space and as the land is open their is no place to hid it . The first Lorry leaves to night and I fly with three other carpenters on monday the town is waybridge gust out of london we are fitting out the lobey of a large German car firm all in white with lether seating allso in white. Im their because I am the only one that can drive on the wrong side of the road as thay say , and I am not a bad chippy hope I dont let them down.
Again all the best with the roof Ray .
Message posted by John and Hilary on 26 August 2006 at 10:08pm - IP Logged
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No its not a BMW so it must a Merk and a large building at that .My firm fitted out one in Paris larst year that team took two weeks now thay say we must finish in one week with my team we fly back next Saterday so their will be no time for me to drive down to see my Mum in Bourmouth . But back to see her end of September for two weeks .
John it would be nice to fit out that kitchen but the next time we are out is Feb-March next year .
The Great Eskape must be in the next five years then I will be 63 so we are still in the planing stage gathering all the info we can get ie -sola and so on
Message posted by brian & sheila on 27 August 2006 at 10:22am - IP Logged
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If I was paying directly for the labour I would be worried Raymond Mind you I am still getting hit for the IKA . I wonder if that makes any difference on the weekend
We are on the last lap now with the solar issue . details to follow .
Have a good time in Blighty , from what you say you will be working twice as fast.....
J&H
Message posted by John and Hilary on 03 September 2006 at 12:10pm - IP Logged
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Now that Jeremy is back from Corfu , may I take this oppurtunity to thank him for the ' ground work ' that he did on the solar issue , both here in UK and out on Corfu .
Our mechanicos now understands what we want implementing , how it is to be done and what equipment brands to use . It has become very clear throughout this quest that our issues re: solar power have seldom been addressed within the building trade out there .
After this project is completed we will have at least one civil engineer that is prepared to install this equipment and be comfortable with it .
That can only be good news for all others that want similar applications in their own builds .
Once again , thanks to Jeremy for his time and effort out there last week .
Regards.......J&H
Message posted by JeremyS on 03 September 2006 at 12:46pm - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by Raymond on 27 August 2006
On a Sunday
six men at double time plus a day in lue
Ray, your post did make me giggle.
When I worked for a roofer in the 90's in Greece, there was no such thing as double-time, let alone days off in lieu!! We regularly worked 10 hours a day/7 days a week for 7,000 drachmas a day and, if we had to work on past 5pm, we would get an additional 2,000 drachmas. To put that into context, the exchange rate at the time was about 380 drachmas to the pound so I was earning approximately £18.50 per day with £5.25 for working late. WHOOPEE!!! Not exactly a fortune by anyone's standards but it was just enough to keep the rent paid and food in our tums.
Mind you, I must admit that I was about 20 kilos lighter and a lot fitter then than I am nowadays!
Stuart
Message posted by becky on 03 September 2006 at 7:15pm - IP Logged
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Quote: Originally posted by John and Hilary on 03 September 2006
Hi Folks ,
Now that Jeremy is back from Corfu , may I take this oppurtunity to thank him for the ' ground work ' that he did on the solar issue , both here in UK and out on Corfu .
Our mechanicos now understands what we want implementing , how it is to be done and what equipment brands to use . It has become very clear throughout this quest that our issues re: solar power have seldom been addressed within the building trade out there .
After this project is completed we will have at least one civil engineer that is prepared to install this equipment and be comfortable with it .
That can only be good news for all others that want similar applications in their own builds .
Once again , thanks to Jeremy for his time and effort out there last week .
Regards.......J&H
Well done to all concerned on this one!
At least this means that other people will now be able to 'tap into' this knowledge with some confidence in the future.
Becky
Message posted by JeremyS on 03 September 2006 at 7:28pm - IP Logged
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Had a good session with Makis at Agni (He drinks Mythos!) He has promised me that he is going to look at your place REAL SOON! We have engaged him for our project, if only we could get this B****Y roof thing done we could all move on!
Jeremy
Message posted by John and Hilary on 03 September 2006 at 8:23pm - IP Logged
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What roof thing.........lol...........Did I mention a roof ?
Right on Becky , we have a ready made solution that can accommodate oil boiler , Woodstove burner as backup and capture the sun to heat and provide hot water for the house 80-90% of the year............result
Regards...J&H
Message posted by Ray and Gisela on 03 September 2006 at 8:23pm - IP Logged
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Glad to heir that all is working out with the sola and we all hope to see it finest . I to am gratfull fo the help that it might allso give me when we start .
As for the double time that allso was a long time in the past . now in Germany I only get 1/4 for all the overtime , how ever many hours I werk.
John we finised it in four and a half days , It was a serprize how much things have changed over their.
Message posted by John and Hilary on 03 September 2006 at 8:30pm - IP Logged
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John - you did not mention the wood burner thing to me! Not a problem but you need to make sure Mitch19 quotes the right Heatstore, as it will need the extra connection..
Jeremy
PS Plumber might like to know too!
Message posted by becky on 03 September 2006 at 8:52pm - IP Logged
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we had to fly back early on Saterday so I had no chance to get to to see my mum , but flying over end of the mounth for two weeks to see her and play golf . you could say things are better if you think that the Helth & safty have not gon over the top , London is the same as when I larst saw it its still gowing down hill . But not getting into that side . if you could get to see the Daimla building on the old Brooklands race track when it opens that is sum think werth looking at if you whant to buy a car you could drive round it or the four by four track . Keep me in mind when the heatig is in .Reagards Ray
Message posted by John and Hilary on 03 September 2006 at 10:17pm - IP Logged
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What is your mothers handicap [ golf ] besides you .....lol.......
I think the next step is for Jeremy and I to get together and publish a fact sheet for anyone wishing to install solar systems into their house . We cannot do that until we are satisfied that all present equipment / engineering etc . meet the required standard , and the systems perform .
One thing that has upset me a little is that the only positive replies to our requests have come from UK companys , despite our attempts to involve the Greek experts !!
I just hope we have not trodden on too many toes to reach our goal !!
I guess this thread is completed now , unless anyone else has something to add ?
Regards....J&H
Message posted by JeremyS on 03 September 2006 at 10:26pm - IP Logged
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John...maybe once the Greek plumber, Engineer or whoever has seen the system and seen it working they may just move around to your way of thinking! and begin to install it in the future.
Dave.
Message posted by pete b on 04 September 2006 at 11:24pm - IP Logged
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We have now got the perfect solution , Makis is going to be well versed with it , what he does in the future is down to him .
It would be a foolhardy decision not to offer it as standard to future clients , but , we don't know how much hassle he has been through to get a result from his end ......yet !!
From our perspective , we have a free supply of hot water for domestic use and central heating all year round , the only cost to us is the electricity to pump the water ...........maybe when I am out there for good I may start down the wind turbine / electricity road............I have to be busy...lol
Regards....J&H
Edit :
Hi Pete , posts collided again , I will probably post in the 'Travel to Greece ' forum and give details of all the costs and suppliers , obviously not until we are satisfied all is OK with the project ..Will keep everybody informed as this is a potential ' biggy ' for those that want to retire and have minimal costs for fuel .
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![[:errr:]](http://www.agni.gr/message_boards/smileys/smiley5.gif){kind=small}
....Thus keeping you fit at the same time
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Not exactly a fortune by anyone's standards but it was just enough to keep the rent paid and food in our tums. ![[:)]](http://www.agni.gr/message_boards/smileys/smiley1.gif){kind=small}
