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got to leave work!!!!

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Message posted by Portia on 29 September 2005 at 9:14pm - IP Logged Legal Disclaimer
Portia
Corfu

Seabubbles:

Thanks for reading my post.  Yes, I did post earlier on this thread.  Yes, that amount for health insurance was per MONTH (as my post stated).

Your friend can get health care because she works (a) in the healthcare industry, and (b) she works for a large organization (presumably, a hospital or some such).  As I stated in my post, if you don't work for a large corporation, it is difficult if not impossible to get paid health care insurance and thus access to health care.

As for property prices, well, Fresno is nothing like L.A.  Many Californians consider it "the sticks."  Sorry.  It's in the middle of farm country and a fairly unsophisticated city.  Of course the housing prices would be way down from those in L.A.

The Land of Golden Opportunity?  Uh, no.  This country has not been that for some 20 years.  Maybe more.  Moreover, the middle class is being eradicated, if it has not been already.  Looking on the good side, there are plenty of very very wealthy people in the U.S.  It's just that most of them didn't earn it themselves. 

We don't really have much healthcare here in the States, we have almost NO pensions, and we sure as heck do have to pay thru' the nose for any education we might get.  It didn't used to be that way.

Portia


Message posted by John and Hilary on 29 September 2005 at 9:28pm - IP Logged Legal Disclaimer Corfu Photos
John and Hilary
Corfu

Hi Portia ,

I have read a lot of your posts and have come to my own conclusions from what I have read and also read between the lines re: Americas financial status .

The US is spending huge sums of money and so ignoring their own inhouse  problems on two fronts .

1 / Vast amounts are being spent on space travel........for what ??

2 / Vast amounts are being spent on fighting and policing the rest of the world .  

Can we draw conclusions from my statement and suggest that after the US screw this planet that they will then start on the rest of the universe ??

Just the way my mind works , unfortunately .

Regards.............John

 


Message posted by BeeBee on 30 September 2005 at 3:47am - IP Logged Legal Disclaimer
BeeBee
Corfu

Hi Portia,

Thanks for reading my message and giving us all more of an insight on how it really is over there in the "Land of the free" I had read that the healthcare system in the US was non-existant for the poor but did not realise that it was so expensive for working/middle classes.

It is amazing that what was once the richest country in the world cannot provide decent housing, healthcare and education for its people.


Message posted by BeeBee on 30 September 2005 at 4:21am - IP Logged Legal Disclaimer
BeeBee
Corfu

Hi again Portia

sorry I had to send my last mail before it was finished. I am at work and had to go into another internet site which causes problems if I have 2 sites open .

I hope reading all our messages re moving to Corfu do not make you feel left out. Some of us will never manage it because we have children/ties here but we can dream (especially on the night-shift)

I am sure you have weighed up the pros and cons but is there any chance you could move to the UK?   It is not perfect but you would get free healthcare and could get cheap flights to Corfu to cheer up up now and again.

<DIV id=smileyDIV5><IMG onmousedown="setCurrSmiley('img5','28/28_1_7v','Sunburn%202');doContextMenu(0);" id=img5 ondragstart='event.dataTransfer.setData("Text","")' title="Sunburn 2" ondragend='insertSmiley("28/28_1_7v","Sunburn%202")' onclick='insertSmiley("28/28_1_7v","Sunburn%202")' src= "http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/28/28_1_7v.gif">

best regards

Bee Bee


Message posted by MartynG on 30 September 2005 at 9:25am - IP Logged Legal Disclaimer Corfu Photos
MartynG
Corfu
Hi

It's many, many years since I last visited the States, but then my overwhelming impression was that (excluding ppoperty and healthcare, about which I had no knowledge) the general cost of living was much less than the UK. I have in mind things like food,petrol (gas) clothing, meals out (fast food certainly) deregulation made internal air travel cheaper and so on. I suspect some of this may have changed, but not everything?

This is not to criticize Portia. The point that I'm trying to make is that there is no such thing as a free lunch. Yes, we in the UK get paid holiday as part of our packages, healthcare that is free at the point of delivery and so on. But, it still has to be paid for and this is acheived by way of higher employment costs (leading to higher product costs) and higher taxation - remember that the highest rate of tax in the UK is now 41% - a full 7% higher than the figure Portia mentions.

Different countries and economies have widely variying priorities. My understanding is that the UK was very much like the USA until the end of WWII and the election of the post war Labour Government which introduced the NHS, the state pension and many oher benefits. Before this, people had to pay for care themselves or rely upon employers who had a social concience.

Of course, all of these employemnt costs, taxes and high prices eventually make a country uncompetitive in an international market (note here the loss of the UK manufacturing industry) so it becomes increasingly more difficult to pay for these benefits. As we will discover soon, I suspect, there will be either spending cuts or higher taxation or both.

Martyn

              

Message posted by StephC on 01 October 2005 at 12:05am - IP Logged Legal Disclaimer
StephC
Corfu

Hi Martyn, Portia and all,

Please don't take offense, but you are hearing one person's opinion about America.  We have an opinion too.  My wife, 3 children and I are American and just visited Corfu for the first time in August.  We saved our hard earned money to travel and visit the beautiful island.  We went with our British friends and had a fantastic time.  What a terrific place!

Just so everyone knows, we certainly are not rich. We sacrifice every year, work hard and saved for this trip. Just like each of you.  I read all the emails about the U.S. and hope that you consider more than one person's comments about their native country.  My opinion is somewhat different regarding where America is heading and what we stand for.  Also, I encourage you to research facts yourself.  America is vast (281 million people), beautiful, multi-faceted and still "one of the lands of opportunity". 

My father told me when I was growing up that "rather than complain, you can do something about your situation".  I did.  I worked my way through school and joined the Army at 17.  I have never looked back.

If I didn't like Los Angeles (which I don't for the reasons Portia explained), you can bet I'd move.  Portia is in the legal profession which has plenty of job openings throughout the nation.  Unfortunately, L.A. is one of the highest cost of living cities in the U.S.  Additionally, California is one of the highest cost of living states in the U.S.  Why would I stay in that situation when there are over 49 other states in the U.S. to live?  Okay, Fresno California might be "boring and in the sticks", but it is also an alternative. So are thousands of other cities in the other 49 states.

My brother owns a small business in Florida with 12 employees.  He pays 75% of his employees health care costs and of their family members.  Sure, it's hard on his small company, but he knows he has to keep his employees happy and loyal.  9 of the 12 have been with him since his company's inception 21 years ago.  I work for a medium sized company headquarted in Washington D.C. My company pays 75% of my family's health care.  I pay the other 25% plus a small deductible if we get sick.   It's not cheap, but it's every bit worth it.  Yes, both my brother and I are working people with good health care and benefits, but we pay for it.

Certainly, as illustrated in New Orleans on TV (don't forget CNN and BBC are selling air time), we have plenty of working poor.  We need to do a better job of helping them.  35 million of the 281 million citizens do not have private health insurance because they are the working poor.  They make too much money for the free government health care program (Medicaid), but not enough to pay for private insurance.  But, if they get in an auto accident or other serious injury, the government will step in and pay the bill.  Despite this, the U.S. should and can do better.

Additionally, the U.S. can help keep health care costs in check by limiting frivilous law suit settlements and by passing tort reform laws in Congress.  We have well educated, well paid doctors, plenty of big pharmaceutical companies developing new drugs and every hospital is loaded with high tech equipment that costs a ton of money.  Unfortunately, someone has to pay for all that.  The U.S. health care is still the best in the world, but a double edged sword. 

Example:  Every family wants to keep dear old 98 year old granny (me included) hooked up to life support when she has a heart attack.  That can cost $thousands per day.   Her body is worn out and in the past, the coroner would have listed her death as "natural causes".  Today, we have all this high tech stuff that will keep her alive for an extra six months. Unfortunately, no one in the family has the compassion to pull Granny's plug and let her drift off peacefully.  The doctor's won't do it either for fear of being sued.  In effect, it costs the taxpayers (and Medicare.....the other government health insurance program for people 65 and over) extra money. 

Sure, the U.S. has it's social, economic and health care problems like anywhere, but  please do your own private research before you give up on us.  The U.S. is still the land of opportunity.  I haven't seen any boats going back to Cuba, Mexico, etc etc. lately have you? Sure, we can't be all things to all people, but we sure try.

Furthermore, based on studies and surveys I've read, the overwhelming wealth generated in the U.S. is new money, not old.  Additionally, the U.S. government has pledged over $55 billion (and counting) in spending to completely rebuild the 140,000 homes in New Orleans that were destroyed.  Many of those folks that will get a new house didn't have home owners insurance.  How many nations pledge that type of fiscal help and assistance to their citizens? Government aid and assistance is also pouring into my home state of Alabama and to neighboring states of Mississippi and Texas. 

Could the U.S. do a better job of taking care of it's citizens. Sure.  Are we policing the world with the U.S. military? It sometimes appears that way.  Did America put the first man on the moon? Yes.  Are we still the leading pioneer in robotics, bio-medical research, space technology, and information technology?  Yes. 

As in the past, when the U.K. or any of our other allies call us....we'll still come running.

All the best,

Joe and Steph 

 

              

Message posted by Sailor on 01 October 2005 at 12:23am - IP Logged Legal Disclaimer Corfu Photos
Sailor

Many thanks Joe & Steph, very interesting reading. It is good to read someone elses opinion on matters such as this. I sometimes dread to think how much it would cost in the UK if we did not have the National Health Service. We do have private health insurances, which also can be quite expensive.

You obviously took heed of your fathers words, to the point of achieving one of your objectives, and visiting Corfu. May you have many more visits.

Yammas, Chris


Message posted by Portia on 01 October 2005 at 11:37pm - IP Logged Legal Disclaimer
Portia
Corfu

Thank you all for your very thoughtful comments.  It's always good to hear other people's viewpoints.

First, Martyn:  Wow.  Yes, your rate of taxation is higher.  Perhaps your cost of living is, too.  I will take your word for it.  Still, virtually every woman I know who lives in the U.K. has a home she has BOUGHT.  Herself.  I know only 2 women here in L.A. who have been able to do that.  Here's a question:  How do the Scandanavian countries pay for their myriad benefits? 

BeeBee:  Moving to the U.K.?  Wow.  It's an idea, but can you imagine the cost of moving?  I am not young (in my 50s) so do have quite a few things I have accummulated in my life (like books!) which I would dearly like to have with me if I moved anyplace.  Are you sure that I would get free healthcare if I moved there?  Surely your country has laws against people moving there and immediately getting free health care, else it would go broke!

Joe and Steph:  What an interesting posting!  I really appreciate your taking the time!  You said "we saved our hard-earned money."  Well, yes, one may DO that, assuming one brings in more than one nickle beyond what it costs for food, shelter, health insurance, transportation, etc.  Saving is not an option when one cannot meet even basic needs.  Moreover, there are 2 people in your household who probably earn the living, and that makes it much much easier to save.  I have never had that luxury.  It's always been just me, a lone female, as the wage earner.  Let us not forget that women in the U.S. still do not make the same wages as men doing the same job (73 cents to the dollar), so it is doubly difficult being a woman, let alone a woman alone.  Then you might throw in age discrimination, which disproportionately affects women, since they are valued primarily for their youthful appearance, submissiveness, and willingness to work for cheaper wages -- all of which older women will not put up with, and the employers know it, and will not hire us.

As for "doing something about your situation," rather than complaining, well, I guess I just have not been working HARD enough!  I have worked full time since the age of 15.  I know no one else who has worked this hard for this long and ended up with nothing to show for it.  I have a university degree, I have applied for every single interesting job I could, and I have been forced over and over again to stay with legal secretarying (for 43 years).

I'm awfully glad that you, "Joe and Steph," have the financial wherewithal to move out of any area if you didn't like it.  I don't.  As stated earlier, moving is an expensive proposition.  The only person I know who is able to move at will is a young woman I know who has always been wealthy.  Moving vans, trucks, getting together the first-and-last month's rent for a new place, etc.  All that costs a heap of money.  Of course, if you HAVE it, you move!  I, however, don't have a sou.  I don't have the money to move down the BLOCK, let alone to a different city, and certainly not to a different country!  It's very easy to say, "If you don't like it, just move."  Yeah, with my and how many others' incomes do I move?

It's lovely that "Joe and Steph" (a) have a brother who owns his own company and (b) work for a medium-sized company.  However, approx. 90% of the employers in California are small employers who do not pay health insurance premiums for their employees.  As I stated above, I have tried and tried and tried and tried and tried for 43 years to find employment with a company consisting of more than me and my one male employer.  I have not succeeded.  So, I am very happy for you, that you are "working people with good health care benefits," but that is far from the norm.  It is becoming a privileged class, here in California anyway.

The statistics for health insurance unavailability in California are daunting.  "The uninsured rate in California is 22.4 percent, well above the national rate (17.4 percent) and the fourth highest in the country. The numbers of uninsured vary significantly across the state, with Los Angeles County containing the highest concentration of uninsured individuals in California. Over a third of the Los Angeles County's 9.5 million residents lack health insurance coverage.1 In certain local communities within the County, the uninsured rate climbs to over 40 percent.2 Moreover, the County contains nearly half of the state's uninsured children (approximately 790,000 of 1.85 million uninsured children), with most uninsured children living in families at or below 200 percent of the Federal Poverty Level (FPL)."

In my opinion, tort reform in the courts is not necessary.  From all the studying up on this I have done, it turns out that, for instance, there are less and less malpractice lawsuits against doctors (and less and less "frivolous" lawsuits), and in spite of this, the insurance companies (the usual suspects) are charging higher and higher premiums to doctors for malpractice insurance.  The insurance companies are the culprits here, not the populace.  The pharmaceutical companies pour most of their money into advertising and marketing while gouging the poor.

As for the government stpping in to pay the bill on account of serious injury, well, that may be true for serious injury.  But what about my 2 (not incidentally single) girlfriends who lost their lives from cancer in their early 50s because they could not afford health care?  They were turned away by every hospital and every doctor.

There are no boats going back to Cuba, Mexico, etc., because there is even more poverty, corruption, and authoritarianism in those countries than there is in the U.S.  For now.  But things are slowly changing, as I have observed in my 58 years.  Moreover, people in those poor countries tend to believe what they see in all our films, which tend to portray Americans as rich and beautiful and happy.  No one makes films about depressing themes, and I don't blame them!  They're a downer!  The films, however, spread a message the world over that this is THE land of opportunity, and everyone thinks they can be a lifeguard on Baywatch or a nonworking wife in Bel Air or something!  Only a microscopically small percentage of women ever find themselves in the happy situations one sees on the Big Screen.  But people in poor countries tend to believe what they see on film!  This has been true for decades.

Yes, the U.S. will come running -- as long as there is oil to be gleaned from a world hotspot!  Notice the U.S. didn't give a fig that over a million people were massacred by Pol Pot in Cambodia.  Why?  No oil, silly!  There are many other examples. 

For the average worker, the fact that the U.S. may be the leader in certain technologies just doesn't cut it.  Having your friends die horrible deaths due to no medical care matters.  The wholesale throwing away of perfectly fine workers under 65 should be an issue, but isn't.  They are not eligible for Medi-Cal, Social Security, or anything else.  And the unemployment numbers just keep inching up.

Going to the moon?  Well, that's something to be proud of...  I guess.  Back here at home, most of us are terrified of what the microcosm of our little lives are becoming.

The U.S. needs to take care of its own before it even thinks of things like taking over other countries and sending spacecraft into the nether regions.  While people are starving and homeless (there are over 10,000 homeless people alone in L.A. City), these other things should not be a consideration.

Just my 2 cents' worth and, again, I do appreciate very much other people's opinions.  Makes life more interesting!

Here's to dreams of Corfu!

Portia

 



              

Message posted by ecotrails on 02 October 2005 at 12:11am - IP Logged Legal Disclaimer Corfu Photos
ecotrails
Corfu

Ian 


Message posted by Guest on 02 October 2005 at 1:34am - IP Logged Legal Disclaimer Corfu Photos
Guest
Portia, GO GIRL !!!!!!!!!

Seabubbles




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